The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who Knows

[Blog of Reason]

Discussion thread for the blog entry "The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who Knows" by Th1sWasATriumph.

Permalink: http://blog.leagueofreason.org.uk/reason/the-illusion-of-choice-or-maybe-its-not-an-illusion-who-knows/

 

[stratos]

Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

Quite an enjoyable read, and I certainly subscribe to the same conclusion as you've written.

Although personally I am not truly convinced that our universe can be thought of as deterministic, it does seem to have all the characteristics for it. However I personally take hope from the fact that you'd have to be a demon to understand all the input, and since I don't believe in heaven or hell, demon's aren't a reality for me.

So that is why with great joy I can live my life knowing that I will never be smart enough to know exactly how it is going to unfold. I might hazard a guess at times, I might even be right sometimes. But luckily not always.

Even while I know how my life's story is going to end, the plot hasn't been spoiled yet.

 

[AndromedasWake]

Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

You think too much. I APPROVE.

 

[DeistPaladin]

Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

I've personally found the whole "free will vs. determinism" to be just as pointless as the one between atheism and deism. I personally do believe that self-determination mixes with nature and nurture to produce who we are, though the vast majority never exercise their will very much. When I try to debate this with a determinist, any example I provide of a choice that seems to go against instinct and/or upbringing, it's met with a shrug and a "that choice was inevitable anyway". There's no way to decisively prove it one way or another.

Side note: the issue of choice or determinism is independent of whether or not God exists.

Theistic Determinism: God exists and planned everything.
Atheistic Determinism: God does not exist but the future is still set.
Theistic Free Will: God exists but did not plan everything.
Atheistic Free Will: God does not exist and we make choices.

 

[Verdad]

Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

I personally believe that in this four dimentional time space that we are trapped in, there is only one future. Or one possible future. I came to this conclusion when I was watching a Einstein -documentary Einstein's Unfinished Symphony. Link to YouTube -video. In part 5 Dr. Brian Cox explains Einsteins idea of predictability of all physical phenomena. In his example throwing a dice can be predicted when you know all relevant factors of that particular instance. And since we are all made of that same physical stuff and obey those very same physical laws, there must be only one possible future that we are destined to "flow". The number of different factors are irrelevant. In that case you could say that free will is only a illusion.

I was a bit depressed when I came to this conclusion. Fortunately I also came aware of theory of multiple dimensions and that it basically, in some level, proves multiple futures. Well sometimes it is healthy to say "I don't know" to themselves. Nevertheless very interesting topic.

 

[connorkimbro]

Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

Really interesting article. I've only discovered this site recently, so apologies for coming back to such an old (in internet time) post. I felt compelled to share a movie recommendation that is the philosophical twin of this article. If you enjoyed this article, you'll love the movie. It's a french movie, starring Audrey Tautou titled "Le battement d'ailes du papillon" (in french) and "Happenstance" (in english).

Hopefully at least one person sees this post and checks out the movie, it's really worth it.

 

[borrofburi]

Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

so apologies for coming back to such an old (in internet time) post.

Well, I hadn't read it before, so thank you for that.