The different types of gods

[Deleted member 42253]

So ... I noticed that most discussions of god, miracles and magic are a little narrow as far as types of gods and magic are concerened.
We made lots of progress as far as fantasy is concerned, so why not make use of it? Time to elevate the discussion of made up stuff to the year 2000.

So first of all, there are different types of gods according to modern fantasy.
1. The all powerful being that formed in space out of nothingness.
2. The all powerful being that came from a different dimension.
3. Ascended beings, basically humans that got enlightened and ascended to godhood.
4. Gods formed by the belief of people and sustained by it.
5. Gods of nature, basically very old trees or animals having gained counsciousness.
6. Avatars of nature, planets, suns and whatnot, basically the physical form of its consciousness.
7. Demigods, immortal beings on their way to godhood.

Ever tried asking a christian what type their god is? Now that might be a fun discussion.

Then there is magic and miracles. And again, there are many types:
1. A god or Angel funneling your power through you.
2. You, realizing your own power through prayer and rituals.
3. You tapping into the power a god is leaking with his permission.
4. You using your own power but mistaking it miracle.

Then there are the different types of magic power
1. Godly power.
2. Psychic power.
3. Mana.
4. Life energy.
5. Power of nature.
6. Power of the Stars or Moon.
7. Energy from other dimensions into ours.
8. Belief and conviction turning into power.
9. Various supernatural beings lending you their power.

Basically, I have been reading too much fantasy and been playing too many roleplaying games. But being well versed in this is actually quite helpful when talking to a religious person. Especially since they do not seem to have given what god is and how he works his magic any deeper thought and they are especially adverse to the idea, that god has been born from nothing into nothingness. Well, after all, the idea that god is an all powerful alien sounds pretty weird. Also the idea that god realizes his power through humans, is basically shamanisn, again something Christians really do not like to associate themselfs with. Sides, it gets really fun, when they start arguing among themselfs when presented with the options ...

Point being, why not fuel the crazyness and hope they realize that there beliefs are far from reasonable?

 

[Mithcoriel]

Ooh, I like classfication.
For types of magic I was gonna say there is also you tapping into a supernatural-but-not-godly power source. But I see you included it under types of magic (9.) Those two lists are pretty similar.
How do you classify mana, though? What exactly is it?

One thing I noticed about Christians is what they say prayer is (asking God to do you a favor) is actually a bit different from how they act about what prayer is. Cause they are acting like prayer is sending your own magical power into the universe to influence events. They'll pray for someone's disease to go away multiple times. What, telling God to cure him once wasn't enough? Does God need to be reminded? Or do you think maybe if the first prayer wasn't enough to convince him, more people praying more often will? And another amusing example I heard is: "We must all pray urgently that God's perfect will be done." So you mean you're gonna pray "Dear God: please do what you want."? You need to tell God to do that?
Nah, clearly they act as if prayer is partially you sending God some of your own magical power to assist him in his task.
On that note: atheistic Buddhists pray too, don't they? Who the heck are they praying to? Even the Dalai Lama, who is supposedly a reincarnation of Buddha, prays.

We could also make more classifications on the type of magic, such as:
- Transformation (of one existing object into another)
- Charm (making existing things do stuff)
- Mind influencing (essentially Charm for living things)
- Evocation (creating things out of nothing)
- Divination (Gaining knowledge. And we could divide this up into where the knowledge comes from, e.g. from gods, or from scrying...)

 

[Sparhafoc]

On that note: atheistic Buddhists pray too, don't they? Who the heck are they praying to? Even the Dalai Lama, who is supposedly a reincarnation of Buddha, prays.

Buddhists usually aren't atheists, but typically when Theravada Buddhists pray, they're praying for something rather than to someone - the act of devotional chanting is in itself 'good' both as a wider act within dharma of 'making merit', and personally for meditative purposes. Mahayana Buddhists, on the other hand, pray to buddhas and bodhisattvas for relief in a more parallel manner to Western theists.

 

[Deleted member 42253]

There are different definitions for Mana, the one I prefer, is that its an alternative source of energy, ebbing and flowing over the world, if not universe. Basically .. no mana, no magic. Its usually utilized by either storing it in your body or funneling it through your body/mind. Alternativly you got fantasy systems, where mana is part of your body.

You bring up an interesting point though Mithcoriel, considering the way god grants miracles/prayer. How would you call it, if god works his power through you .. against your will? Now thats not okey no matter what reasons he might have.
Oh and if prayer is actually conveing your power/energy to a god, that actually would mean, we are talking about an invented god that feeds on his believers like a parasite. Seems pretty vile. Good news is, that kinda god starves to death if people stop believing in him ... Sounds quite like the christian god, after all, he demands that you believe in him. There has to be a compelling reason for that.

As for classifications for magic, they either go by what fuels them or their effect. And there are lot of different classification systems. I tried recalling some of the systems I know .. but there are honestly too many options, pretty much every video game, pen and paper rpg, movie or book got its own.

See how this is much more fun than basing a discussion solely on their made up book and rather take all made up books into account?

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

This is something that I always try to do, mainly because Christians always confuse their god (Jesus) for Omni-god. They do this because, for whatever reason, philosophers confuse Jesus for Omni-god and Christian Apologists are more than happy to run with that idea. However, it is plain from just reading the Bible that Jesus is not omni-anything, let alone Omni-god.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Not Christians, HWIN, just American Protestants.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Mithcoriel]

This is something that I always try to do, mainly because Christians always confuse their god (Jesus) for Omni-god. They do this because, for whatever reason, philosophers confuse Jesus for Omni-god and Christian Apologists are more than happy to run with that idea. However, it is plain from just reading the Bible that Jesus is not omni-anything, let alone Omni-god.

Well, what Jesus/God is portrayed as in the Bible is of course not the same thing as what he's portrayed as in modern Christianity.
In the Bible, God is often not all-knowing, has regrets, acts stupid, etc. In modern depiction, he very much is the omnipotent being that came into being on its own and created the universe.
In the Bible, God and Jesus aren't the same person. In modern depictions, Jesus is an Avatar of God and inseparable from him.

 

[Led Zeppelin]

One thing I noticed about Christians is what they say prayer is (asking God to do you a favor) is actually a bit different from how they act about what prayer is. Cause they are acting like prayer is sending your own magical power into the universe to influence events. They'll pray for someone's disease to go away multiple times. What, telling God to cure him once wasn't enough? Does God need to be reminded? Or do you think maybe if the first prayer wasn't enough to convince him, more people praying more often will? And another amusing example I heard is: "We must all pray urgently that God's perfect will be done." So you mean you're gonna pray "Dear God: please do what you want."? You need to tell God to do that?

This is a good point and I think it is often true.

When I pray I am mostly just telling God about stuff that is going on my life. Im sure he already knows but I think he likes it when I take the time to tell him about some things.

 

[Led Zeppelin]

This is something that I always try to do, mainly because Christians always confuse their god (Jesus) for Omni-god. They do this because, for whatever reason, philosophers confuse Jesus for Omni-god and Christian Apologists are more than happy to run with that idea. However, it is plain from just reading the Bible that Jesus is not omni-anything, let alone Omni-god.

I think his is also kinda a good point too. But I would say Jesus and God are both not Omni.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

Not Christians, HWIN, just American Protestants.

Nope. I grew up as a Catholic, and that is what I learned in Catholic School.

Well, what Jesus/God is portrayed as in the Bible is of course not the same thing as what he's portrayed as in modern Christianity.
In the Bible, God is often not all-knowing, has regrets, acts stupid, etc. In modern depiction, he very much is the omnipotent being that came into being on its own and created the universe.
In the Bible, God and Jesus aren't the same person. In modern depictions, Jesus is an Avatar of God and inseparable from him.

Exactly my point. And people should stop letting Christians get away with pretending their diety is Omni-god (or just God) without any pushback. And on that note, atheists should stop referring to Yahweh/Jesus as God and always point out that Yahweh/Jesus is just a god among many.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Nope. I grew up as a Catholic, and that is what I learned in Catholic School.

But there's a difference between how Catholics view the triune nature of God, and how American Protestants focus exclusively on Jesus.

If your Catholic upbringing resembled the latter, then it doesn't resemble Catholic teaching.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Sparhafoc]

In the Bible, God and Jesus aren't the same person. In modern depictions, Jesus is an Avatar of God and inseparable from him.

The result of an ideological battle from 1800 years ago wherein apotheosizing forces won out for the most part.

 

[Deleted member 42253]

God = Allpowerful space alien
Holy Ghost = Avatar of the former
Jesus = Demigod lacking enlightenment, with the sole purpose to be absorbed by the alien when reaching enlightenment

There, the holy trinity solved.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

Greetings,


But there's a difference between how Catholics view the triune nature of God, and how American Protestants focus exclusively on Jesus.

If your Catholic upbringing resembled the latter, then it doesn't resemble Catholic teaching.

Kindest regards,

James

I mean in the sense that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are Omni-god. I understand what you are saying about Protestants only focusing on Jesus, but that was not the point I was making. The god of the Bible is not Omni-god if anyone took the time to read the Bible, although all devotees of Jesus will claim he is Omni-god (no matter the flavor of Christianity).