Testimony

[Yfelsung]

The first time a Christian lied to me was... well, I can't remember, but it would have been the first time one of them opened their mouth and words came out.

I do find it humorous that every time I read one of these stories I come out with the knowledge that the number one cause for religious conversion is schizophrenia.

 

[Shaedys]

I do find it humorous that every time I read one of these stories I come out with the knowledge that the number one cause for religious conversion is schizophrenia.

Anything to support this? I can't seem to find it.
Or is that your experience? Just curious.

 

[Yfelsung]

I do find it humorous that every time I read one of these stories I come out with the knowledge that the number one cause for religious conversion is schizophrenia.

Anything to support this? I can't seem to find it.
Or is that your experience? Just curious.

Well, I read the story, the person mentions hearing voices and sometimes seeing stuff, that's schizophrenia or, at the very least, delusion.

I've never read a conversion story that didn't involve seeing and hearing stuff not there.

How many Christians talk about God physically speaking to them? Too many to not worry about.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Where did blood_pardon go anyway?

 

[lrkun]

Where did blood_pardon go anyway?

I don't think it matters where blood_pardon went. Besides, that is something personal. I do, however, hope that he/she came to the conclusion that maybe it is a good idea to question his or her belief.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Well that's the thing, I like people to say what they think... I don't like these seemingly hit-and-run tactics...

 

[blood_pardon]

Well that's the thing, I like people to say what they think... I don't like these seemingly hit-and-run tactics...

What is there to comment on?

 

[Andiferous]

Good point BP.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

What is there to comment on?

Ohai, welcome back. Glad I put that "seemingly" word in there. Seems like my faith in humanity is rewarded from time to time. ;-)

One thing I'd like your thoughts on is for example this quote:

What is your intention with it? What do you expect to achieve?

In other words - why did you post this story? I mean, it's cute and all, but I wager you knew beforehand none of use would be impressed.

And what are your thoughts on the several posts here which, related to the above, said that what you've described is kinda worrying in a psychological sense?

And as LRkun said, are you questioning your beliefs in any way?

 

[DepricatedZero]

The first time a Christian lied to me was... well, I can't remember, but it would have been the first time one of them opened their mouth and words came out.

I lol'd hard

 

[lrkun]

@Blood_Pardon

God is good. That which is not good is not god. Do good things and you are being godly.

Focus on that. Meditate on it, and eventually you will realize, religion is not a necessity, being a christian or theists is not necessary. Just focus on doing good things.

What is good?
For a start, you can follow the law. Find work, be of use to your fellow men. Strive to struggle and improve your way of life, following the above guidelines.

Think about it.

 

[borrofburi]

Well, I read the story, the person mentions hearing voices and sometimes seeing stuff, that's schizophrenia or, at the very least, delusion.

That's just a "religious experience" (wikipedia article sucks on this one, the thing is, it's a semi-rigorous term from anthropology). I've had one. I'm not a schizophrenic.

 

[borrofburi]

They were supposed to be preparing us for college level composition but instead we degressed back to the sixth grade....

I would hardly call the seventh book in the series "sixth grade composition". It's less that it's poor writing than that there are much better time-tested books out there (well ok, the series does start out a bit weak).

 

[lrkun]

Well, I read the story, the person mentions hearing voices and sometimes seeing stuff, that's schizophrenia or, at the very least, delusion.

That's just a "religious experience" (wikipedia article sucks on this one, the thing is, it's a semi-rigorous term from anthropology). I've had one. I'm not a schizophrenic.[/quote]


Maybe hearing voices is akin to reflection. One talks to himself and ponders the different ideas, just like reflecting on one's thoughts.

 

[borrofburi]

Religion touches all of the human defects and offers an invisible remedy to your problems, then the human brain that is capable of making fantasy into a reality plays a huge role on it.

People really just don't understand how fallible their brains actually are (and, by extension, how silly it is to base an entire life off a few subjective unverifiable experiences). Here's my standard list of reasons I don't necessarily trust my experiences/intuition/memory/preconceptions:

• The Forer Effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDfTLSb01xs
• On how bad memory is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfhIuaD183I
• Pitfalls of Thinking: Confirmation Bias (1/2): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34BhEgO_es
• Pitfalls of Thinking: Confirmation Bias (2/2): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvj7p7Clq0c
• On the many security vulnerabilities and biases we have in our brains (including quirk of our memory, as well as quirk of what we consider a "hit" for paranormal concepts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPqerbz8KDc
• More reasons why trusting your own mind (especially as infallible) is not necessarily the best of ideas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98OTsYfTt-c
• On the topic of critical thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg One thing I would note in this video is that, so far as I could see, he failed to remind us that any position that by definition can not be shown to be unfounded (i.e. untestable) is a flawed one.
• On why faith is worthless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wV_REEdvxo
• Why common sense is worthless: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60uJ7sOx_1A
• Why science is not at all faith based (also only tangentially related): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlaCq3dKvvI
• On the topic of open mindedness (again, only tangentially related): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
• On spiritualism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l95-OgVnrXk
• Brian Brushwood's Lecture start (whole thing is well worth watching): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZr4mLwGxw4

 

[blood_pardon]

What is your intention with it? What do you expect to achieve?

In other words - why did you post this story? I mean, it's cute and all, but I wager you knew beforehand none of use would be impressed.

The main purpose was to bring to the LoR readers attention that I am a Christian and to give some background as to why.

And what are your thoughts on the several posts here which, related to the above, said that what you've described is kinda worrying in a psychological sense?

I think those are valid concerns considering what I said.

Now this part is kind of hard to explain. Months later I was lying in bed and this mysterious motivation just rose up in me to protest the series. I was just suddenly convinced that Harry Potter was wicked. Now remember, I was neutral with the whole Harry Potter thing. I actually enjoyed those books

Something supernatural happened to me that night. The Lord spoke and He told me what I was. I don't believe I heard an audible voice, yet He spoke. How do I explain this? It was an intense experience. It was as if another person had invaded my mind and He was saying I was in a desperate situation. It wasn't that I had messed up, it was that I had never done anything but mess up. My very nature was vile. I couldn't stop thinking about it! He would not leave me alone.

I was sure to say that I did not hear an audible voice but I did say that another person had invaded my mind and I can see why this is disturbing. That being said Im just being honest. It was as if something outside of myself was reminding me of all the wrong I had done in my life. There was this internal battle waging as I tried to convince myself that I was a good person but the Holy Spirit unveiled my true nature. Theologically this is called repentance although I didnt know what was happening then.

I like what I heard a man say one time, "There are three choices: Im mad man, Im lying, or what Im saying is the truth."

Im either a crazy person or I really do have a personal relationship with God. All I know for sure is that night a light came on and now I genuinely care about living a good life.

And as LRkun said, are you questioning your beliefs in any way?

I take this to mean am I doubting my beliefs, and if thats it then no Im not. I sense this may be a loaded question to find out if Im here to just preach at people. No Im not here to do that either, I enjoy getting to know people and finding out there opinions on things. I know so far I seem to be sock puppeting and not really engaging in conversation, I want to work on changing that.

 

[Gnug215]

I like what I heard a man say one time, "There are three choices: Im mad man, Im lying, or what Im saying is the truth."

Im either a crazy person or I really do have a personal relationship with God. All I know for sure is that night a light came on and now I genuinely care about living a good life.

I think there are more alternatives to this. One could be that it's fairly normal for the human psyché to experience something like this, simply due to the nature of our minds/brains. Having "experienced religion" myself, I think I can safely say that my mind is geared towards stuff like that, but luckily, it is also geard towards skepticism, inquiry and honest (I think) introspection.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

I was sure to say that I did not hear an audible voice but I did say that another person had invaded my mind and I can see why this is disturbing. That being said Im just being honest. It was as if something outside of myself was reminding me of all the wrong I had done in my life. There was this internal battle waging as I tried to convince myself that I was a good person but the Holy Spirit unveiled my true nature. Theologically this is called repentance although I didnt know what was happening then.

I like what I heard a man say one time, "There are three choices: Im mad man, Im lying, or what Im saying is the truth."

Im either a crazy person or I really do have a personal relationship with God. All I know for sure is that night a light came on and now I genuinely care about living a good life.

This is actually the best response to those slightly inflammatory worded concerns I've even seen from a person in question. Kudos.

I take this to mean am I doubting my beliefs, and if thats it then no Im not. I sense this may be a loaded question to find out if Im here to just preach at people. No Im not here to do that either, I enjoy getting to know people and finding out there opinions on things. I know so far I seem to be sock puppeting and not really engaging in conversation, I want to work on changing that.

Don't see how you look to be sock puppeting. Wouldn't know what your socket puppet account would be, so meh.
No, she did not mean doubt. Doubt can come from questioning, though, so I guess it's related.
What she meant was - do you ever think about the validity of your beliefs?
Back when I believed, my faith was of such a nature that it didn't allow me to question, since it was the devil playing with your mind. I would remind myself why I believed as I did, but I never truly questioned and thus never doubted.

To illustrate: someone might align themselves as a socialist and never question it. <-- What you described in OP

Someone might then wonder why it is again that they're a socialist. <-- What you did in OP.

Then someone might wonder how valid their socialism is and look with a critical eye at their political beliefs. <-- Do you do this?

Optionally such a person might then start doubting - perhaps socialism isn't the best position at all? <-- You don't do this.

If you do question your beliefs, what are your thoughts? What draws you to this conclusion?

 

[mirandansa]

The main purpose was to bring to the LoR readers attention that I am a Christian and to give some background as to why.

I was raised a Catholic and then became a "born-again", not in an Evangelical way but rather in a Kierkegaardian way, at one of my most emotionally difficult times (i assure you i can empathise with what you mean by "the Lord spoke"). I then however started identifying with "atheism" as i watched more and more videos on YouTube and read more and more books on it. I maintained this label for about 3 years. Today, i still hold criticisms of the harmful aspects of mythical dogmatism often exhibited by many Christians and Muslims among others, but i no longer call myself exclusively an "atheist" in a theological conversation.

I was sure to say that I did not hear an audible voice but I did say that another person had invaded my mind and I can see why this is disturbing. That being said Im just being honest. It was as if something outside of myself was reminding me of all the wrong I had done in my life.

"myself" is a stream of consciousness. It's a system where information comes, feedbacks, dissociates, integrates, etc. The sense of "me" arises where information feedbacks converge.

There was this internal battle waging as I tried to convince myself that I was a good person but the Holy Spirit unveiled my true nature. Theologically this is called repentance although I didnt know what was happening then.

What i think was happening to you is that a collection of memories was being observed critically by the executive function of your brain according to the newly acquired value-system of Christianity.

I like what I heard a man say one time, "There are three choices: Im mad man, Im lying, or what Im saying is the truth."

Im either a crazy person or I really do have a personal relationship with God. All I know for sure is that night a light came on and now I genuinely care about living a good life.

Right, your perspective of life changed. You do have a personal relationship with "God". And it's crucial that you don't misinterpret your experience, that you don't mistake "God" for a supernatural yet objective existence, for a thing out there separate from the natural world. God is a natural process of which you are. God does not "speak to" you; God does you, and you do God, through the deepest appreciation of reality.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Mirandansa making a very coherent and true post.
Nice.