Master_Ghost_Knight said:Are you kidding me?
Paul's "knowledge" of Jesus is a dream. A freaking dream! Literally, he had a dream while on the road to Damascus. This is not a secret, this is the official version of the church.
The fact Paul "saw him in a dream", pretty much disqualifies him as a witness to anything.
The fact that he dreamed it up should have been a dead give away!
What the hell is wrong with you?
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Here is another alternative, he (Paul) was not talking about fact or something someone told him, he was talking about conviction. Lying is intentional, and he couldn't be lying if he believed it, even tough what he was saying was not true
And what difference would it make if we substitute Paul for Pilate? you said that you would accept a testimony form Pilate as evidence, why is Pilate better than Paul?
Master_Ghost_Knight said:Paul is hardly an unbiased source. Not to mention the problem I just described above. Paul's relationship to Jesus is trough "Visions", not Jesus a "real person".
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Nobody knows who James was, or what was his relationship to Jesus, not even if he was a real person
we know that James is the brother of Jesus because multiple independent sources confirms this.
We don't know if Paul knew Jesus, but Paul did knew some of the close relatives and disciples of Christ, he had access to primary sources.
the point that I was making is that a source can be reliable even if the author was not there to witness the event.Master_Ghost_Knight said:Alexander was a real person. The king of a Kingdom. Founded a city that bared his name. Is face has been minted into coins. Son of the king of Macedonia, his childhood is described in great detail and explicitly mentions being raised in the court at Pella (Macedonia), had Aristotle as tutor who also mentions him.
Sure you don't have a scribe peering into his mother womb as he gives his first breath. But the mountain of evidence surrounding it is incontestable, and the claim in uncontroversial. For all I know maybe the mother was on a trip right outside the outskirts of Macedonia, it's a very trivial an uncontroversial claim that he was born in Macedonia.
agree? yes or no?
Master_Ghost_Knight said:leroy wrote:
If a journalists decides to interview war veterans, and write a historical book based about what happened in Vietnam, would you consider the book unreliable because it was written 50 years after the events? Would you reject the source because the journalist wasn’t there?
You have no comparison here. The earliest texts on Christianity are not related to anyone who was even supposedly there. None who claim to have seen Jesus as a person. And unless they figured away to time travel, or live for really long long, the texts that relate to people who had the opportunity of having a first hand account must necessarily (the texts) be second hand accounts.
You need to track the source of knowledge, paper isn't magic, a statements aren't automatically true just because it is written down. Someone had to physically grab an inscription tool an write the stuff down, so how did they know? Where is the information coming from the moment the "pen meets the paper"?
Paul went to see close relatives and disciples of Jesus, he knew the Eye Witnesses and wrote the letters based on what he learned.
Master_Ghost_Knight said:Here is another alternative, he was not talking about fact or something someone told him, he was talking about conviction. Lying is intentional, and he couldn't be lying if he believed it, even tough what he was saying was not true
what do you mean by conviction?
Paul reported for example that Peter (Cefas) saw the risen Jesus.
So ether>
-Paul Lied and invented the story
-Peter lied to Paul
- Peter saw Jesus in dream - hallucination - illusion
- Peter saw someone who looked like Jesus
- or Jesus was really risen.