Problem of Proof

[Phasma]

So, this is my problem. Its not a big problem but its been going over in my mind recently. :roll:
I'm an atheist and have been since I was a child, which never seemed to bother my mother, except she often hushed me about it. When pressed she would say that I shouldnt talk about it because it would `upset people`. Which struck me as odd, because my mother doesnt subscribe to any specific religion, rather believes in a collection of spiritual things such as reincarnation and tarot cards and things of that nature. It took me a while to realise that atheism wasnt anything I should be ashamed of, however we still cant really talk about it because of some of the beliefs she holds, she changes the subject when I bring it up. Now, while I cant say anything to her about it, she'll often hasten to tell me some proof about something or another. When I gently let her know that what she sees as proof wouldnt stand up to a critical mind, she gets huffy and asks me why I cant just let people believe what they want.

Recently she sent me a book she expects me to read about reincarnation, which she says has proof in it. Its about a boy with past life memories, and I did flick over the first couple of pages. But I feel its slightly morally objectional to me to read a book in which I feel a child has (in my opinion) been incited to believe something for spiritual or other reasons.
If I read it, I doubt my mother would listen to my opinion on it, but if I dont she'll insist theres proof in there and I'm too closeminded to seek it. :facepalm:

I'm not sure what to do. Any suggestions?

 

[lrkun]

You do have a good relations with your mom right?

Is it possible that both of you can choose not to talk about such topic and enjoy bonding time? Hiking, picnic, etc?

 

[Phasma]

:lol: yes we have a good relationship. My problem is more what to do with this book, if I send it back without reading it she'll have a tantrum, if I send it back having read it she'll want me to share her belief it's proof.

 

[lrkun]

:lol: yes we have a good relationship. My problem is more what to do with this book, if I send it back without reading it she'll have a tantrum, if I send it back having read it she'll want me to share her belief it's proof.

Read the book, liken it to reading a story book. Maybe you'll enjoy it and dub it under fiction.

Well, you can tell your mom that you love her very much, and despite the explanation of said book, it still doesn't work for you. And also you can add this as a closure, if the forces or gods or whatnot exist. They don't judge a man via his religion or beliefs, but his worth by virtue of his actions.

 

[/b/artleby]

Read the book. You can't just shut yourself off to differing viewpoints just because they're wrong. There is a valid topic of study in the blatantly false. This is a quote by Bertrand Russell which has helped me greatly over the years.

"When an intelligent man expresses a view which seems to us obviously absurd, we should not attempt to prove that it is somehow true, but we should try to understand how it came to seem true."

So yes, the book may be a complete crock of bull, and yes, it may be pseudo-scientific drivel. But there are people who believe it, and that is something which can tell us a lot about human beings. Read the book, but whenever you come to something that seems obviously absurd, stop, and ask your self "why does the author believe this to be true?". Does the viewpoint offer any convenient moral strictures? Does it allow the author to feel like he/she is part of an elect elite, superior to their non-enlightened brethren? Does it give the illusion of power, of security, of peace, of a bright and shining future? Ask yourself what someone would have to gain from believing in this book, and use that to help assess the author's bias.

You're going to read/hear/see a lot of bullshit in your life kid, and the ability to dissect this bullshit is something you are going to have to acquire at some point or another. Yes, it's going to probably take a bit of research to find where the flaw in his argument is, and yes it will probably fill you with confusion for a while. But after a while your ability to disseminate will improve, and that is something which will be of infinite utility to you throughout your life.

Even bullshit has it's purpose

 

[borrofburi]

So, this is my problem. Its not a big problem but its been going over in my mind recently. :roll:
I'm an atheist and have been since I was a child, which never seemed to bother my mother, except she often hushed me about it. When pressed she would say that I shouldnt talk about it because it would `upset people`. Which struck me as odd, because my mother doesnt subscribe to any specific religion, rather believes in a collection of spiritual things such as reincarnation and tarot cards and things of that nature. It took me a while to realise that atheism wasnt anything I should be ashamed of, however we still cant really talk about it because of some of the beliefs she holds, she changes the subject when I bring it up. Now, while I cant say anything to her about it, she'll often hasten to tell me some proof about something or another. When I gently let her know that what she sees as proof wouldnt stand up to a critical mind, she gets huffy and asks me why I cant just let people believe what they want.

Recently she sent me a book she expects me to read about reincarnation, which she says has proof in it. Its about a boy with past life memories, and I did flick over the first couple of pages. But I feel its slightly morally objectional to me to read a book in which I feel a child has (in my opinion) been incited to believe something for spiritual or other reasons.
If I read it, I doubt my mother would listen to my opinion on it, but if I dont she'll insist theres proof in there and I'm too closeminded to seek it. :facepalm:

I'm not sure what to do. Any suggestions?

I would tell her that pattern: look, every time you present "proof" to me I point out the reasons I don't believe it and then you get angry at me; now you've presented me a whole book you claims is proof, which ultimately gives me two options: don't read it and deal with your criticisms that I'm "closed minded", or read it and tell you what I think and end up with you angry at me. What do you think I should choose? Do you think it's fair that you give me this choice?

Also: Open-Mindedness

 

[borrofburi]

Read the book. You can't just shut yourself off to differing viewpoints just because they're wrong. There is a valid topic of study in the blatantly false. This is a quote by Bertrand Russell which has helped me greatly over the years.

"When an intelligent man expresses a view which seems to us obviously absurd, we should not attempt to prove that it is somehow true, but we should try to understand how it came to seem true."

So yes, the book may be a complete crock of bull, and yes, it may be pseudo-scientific drivel. But there are people who believe it, and that is something which can tell us a lot about human beings.

It's odd when something mature comes from someone with the letters "/b/" in their name...

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Just go through the book, attempt to be critical of what is stated. Refute what you can. Research.

Afterwards, give back the book making it clear that quality of evidence still trumps quantity. 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 still equals 0, after all.

 

[simonecuttlefish]

Or you could do a "deal". Give her a copy of Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion" and see if the "I think it's important you read this" thing works both ways.

I'd still read it, make notes and see how many explanations you can find for picking it to pieces. You don't need to "convert" your mother, so don't try if it causes tension. But there is virtue in learning "why" something is bunk, rather than just calling it bunk.

These may be interesting to check out 1st and do comparisons. You can probably swap the term "God" for, deity, guiding spirits, cosmic plane, magic crystal powered dolphin of the ancient esoteric secrets, whatever.

 

[/b/artleby]

It's odd when something mature comes from someone with the letters "/b/" in their name...

*shrug*

I like to keep people on their toes...

 

[Deleted member 619]

Turn it around on her (respectfully). If her response to your objections is 'let people believe what they want', then yours to her should be the corrollary 'let people not believe what they don't want'.

Simples.

 

[Andiferous]

I agree that it can't hurt to be exposed to differing viewpoints, and to not read a book because it may be 'morally objectionable' teeters on the book-banning mentality. Although I can imagine how difficult it would be to slog through a book about reincarnation.

If it were me, I would ask your mom to explain it herself. If your mom does see proof in the book, then I would think she would be able to provide a kind of synopsis. I find that some books are written for a specific audience, and they sometimes make assumptions of their reader, and I personally find them a bit of a challenge to understand. It might be more helpful to be able to ask questions, anyway? Without being hostile or trying to convince her, that is.

I like books, but I find that very few can convince me to change my opinion. Largely because they are non-interactive, and I like to be able to take ideas apart and analyse them.