Police Use of Force Analysis NSFW

[Sparhafoc]

How is that me operating on generalities and not you?

He is quoting from the Gospel according to QAnon, whereas your opinion's just opinion, not fact.

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

Politics sucks, man.

It is the reality. It is the reason people absolutely hate politicians when they are actually made aware of their actions in the legislature. MAking omnibus bills and wasting everyone's time.

Unironically, people have been just publically, unjustly killed by police officers, having posed no threat to them at the time. Why is it retarded to be afraid of them, especially in our country where we rely so heavily on incredibly ineffective warrior training that teaches the police to be naturally antagonistic towards the very public they're meant to serve, turning them into paranoid assholes with guns?

It isn't the fault of police that suspects don't know the law. If you can stomach paying fines and jailtime then don't risk that while committing a crime. That guy is dead because he is stupid plain and simple. Smoke weed, fell asleep, cops come in order to enforce the law. They are literal law enforcement officers they are there to use force in order to force compliance and/or fine and/or jail you.

In the videos I see I don't see a majority of paranoid cops I see entirely reasonable people attempting to enforce the law as it is written. The instances of so called police brutality are primarily nonsense or best case scenario the vast minority of police actions or police use of force.

International law has to be enforced by nations that don't necessarily have an interest in doing so. Also, I assure you Bogan, the cartel and all its resources pales before the US government. We could unironically turn any anti-cartel faction into the dominant force of Mexico in a single night if we wanted. Seriously dude, our military budget could be used to run several nations.

That would depend on those people you empower not to be corrupt. How do you guarantee this? You can't. So you have to act unilaterally without involvement of the Mexican government.

Okay...?

It is to illustrate how pointless those laws are and those are type of laws being suggested as a majority in failed bills and currently being pushed by the Biden administration. It is literally involved in preventing the passage of other laws that have majority support.

So. How was the implementation arbitrary?

Ok so mask mandate when you walk into a restaurant and then you immediately sit next to other people and take off your mask in order to eat.

You get on and off the flight at an airline for TSA checks then you go onto the aircraft and you are literally sitting next to someone breathing recirculated air.

Gun range example I gave previously. Wear a mask so you can be less competent while handling a firearm to protect yourself against a disease that is about as deadly as the flu and less deadly considering people in certain categories.

All three are totally ridiculous.

I'm fairly certain that a lot of those places were, well, shut down during the worst Covid spikes. I imagine they'll shut down again, soon enough.

No not at least in my state as the mask mandates were challenged and people know they are not laws anymore. You literally cannot enforce them using police. Restaurants are already in hole due to the fact that Covid has forced many businesses to shut down. They are not going to implement or enforce them at a business level when they are so weakened and when they cannot be fined.

If I was a business owner I wouldn't risk my business shutting down over arbitrary masks and also the people who plainly don't care to wear a mask. Why would I go through the extra effort in order to negatively effect my business in closing down when it is determined to be illegal and requiring masks when mask mandates are not laws and therefore cannot be enforced.

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

Golly, how very unreasonable of you! What, do you think that police officers in other countries walk their beats without a firearm... *snort*... I expect you imagine they carry round funny little sticks to clobber bad guys on the head and say 'you're nicked, sonny jim' too!

The dream inside a dream inside a dream.

Actually police do use de-escalation but those cases generally don't get news coverage now do they? Police put up with dense and irritating people everyday and yet nothing happens to those people provided they don't commit a crime.

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

You have to keep that bubble as big as you can get it, right?

Ah so people should constantly put up with false premises from people eh? 20 pages of sheer insults when you are in the "league of reason" forum and yet your kiddie like behavior along with multiple other people shouldn't be ignored?

He was not driving well high, innocent until proven guilty and all. Beyond that, how did the officer know he was smoking weed when he was asleep in his car? Hard to smoke when asleep.

Where did I say he was driving while high? I said he was smoking weed and he fell asleep.

Again the entire purpose of arresting someone is to give them due process. How do you process someone who is absent or moreover doesn't identify themselves?

Police investigate odd things that are out of the ordinary. It is plausible that while falling asleep the criminal left the doors open or the light on in the car and so the cop investigated what was going on. It isn't uncommon to find people that overdose on drugs doing the same thing. Thus if you see people asleep in a vehicle you are going to check on them correct? When you smell burning weed then you look for it and the cop even POINTS to it on camera with his asp.

How is that me operating on generalities and not you?

Why don't you simply read the entire context of those things and simply not ask me. They in the original comment where you got them from don't waste my time with this shit.

It is not my job to tease out your argument. Your job is to be as clear as you can be so others do not misconstrue your point. This has already been pointed out to you.

Link me a debate or argument where NO clarification questions are made in the debate or argument and show me that the conversation or debate doesn't end in failure.

You are now suggesting that what you meant to say is sometimes it is corrupt and sometimes incompetent. Is English not your native tongue? Because as a native English speaker, that does appear obvious that you are stating the government is corrupt and incompetent.

Ladies and gentlemen we have a Sherlock Holmes - no shit sherlock. Aspects of government can be incompetent and competent yes?

might be news to you to learn police officers are part of the government.

No shit. I already covered this many times.

Again, not my job to sift through your hyperbole. If you want people to understand you, you take the time to make your points clearer.

Yet here you are.

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

He is quoting from the Gospel according to QAnon, whereas your opinion's just opinion, not fact.

False premise. You aren't very smart.

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

False premise. You aren't very smart.

Why don't you actually engage with the topic?

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

Another good shoot. One less dumbass.

 

[Deleted member 619]

False premise. You aren't very smart.

This is hilarious. Honesty, I couldn't be having more fun than seeing shit like this.

 

[Patty P]

I don't see that as justified. if anything it shows just how quick the police are in the states to shoot first, ask questions later. Probably more so given the driver is/was a person of colour. They could have blocked his way with their vehicles instead of shooting the suspect.

Police didnt shoot because he was black. And its justified to shoot when a suspect uses a vehicle as a weapon, as apparant in the video.

 

[Patty P]

Both should be illegal.

What...

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

Ah so people should constantly put up with false premises from people eh? 20 pages of sheer insults when you are in the "league of reason" forum and yet your kiddie like behavior along with multiple other people shouldn't be ignored?

Justify your bubble however you like; it is your bubble.

Where did I say he was driving while high? I said he was smoking weed and he fell asleep.

You said:

Sleeping in your car isn't a crime. I don't believe I argued sleeping in your car is a crime. Currently the law is that weed is federally prohibited and prohibited by statute.

Personally I don't give a fuck if you smoke in your house. Hell do heroin and all that so long as you keep it in your house. As far as you smoking weed in your vehicle no I would have to disagree noting the temptation to drive while high.

[Emphasis added]

Thus, you already agreed that sleeping in a car is not a crime, yet you threw in the possibility of driving while high. You realize that this is a written forum, and people can click back through and see the context of what is written, right?

Again the entire purpose of arresting someone is to give them due process. How do you process someone who is absent or moreover doesn't identify themselves?

Why was he being arrested in the first place? He was asleep in a car. It is hard to smoke when you are asleep. So, why was the police officer there in the first place?

Police investigate odd things that are out of the ordinary. It is plausible that while falling asleep the criminal left the doors open or the light on in the car and so the cop investigated what was going on. It isn't uncommon to find people that overdose on drugs doing the same thing. Thus if you see people asleep in a vehicle you are going to check on them correct? When you smell burning weed then you look for it and the cop even POINTS to it on camera with his asp.

Is it odd for people to sleep in cars? Was his door left open, and that is why the officer investigated? Are you just making up excuses now?

Why don't you simply read the entire context of those things and simply not ask me. They in the original comment where you got them from don't waste my time with this shit.

I did read the entire context. But, unfortunately, nowhere does it backtrack on your original claim of the government being corrupt and incompetent.

Link me a debate or argument where NO clarification questions are made in the debate or argument and show me that the conversation or debate doesn't end in failure.

Again, make yourself clearer when you write and stop getting upset when people take you at your word.

Ladies and gentlemen we have a Sherlock Holmes - no shit sherlock. Aspects of government can be incompetent and competent yes?

Yes, yet that was not what you said. So, again, make yourself clearer when you write and stop getting upset when people take you at your word.

Yet here you are.

Yes. To point out your mistakes.

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

This is hilarious. Honesty, I couldn't be having more fun than seeing shit like this.

You haven't actually contributed meaningfully to the conversation. You still haven't explained how police would effect arrest if high speed pursuit and pit maneuver is not allowed.



How do you remedy this oh bogus one?

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

Justify your bubble however you like; it is your bubble.

Irony - considering this forum is majority against me not standing with me. You guys are in an echo chamber not me. Again I left my echo chamber of agreement to come here in search of disagreement.

Thus, you already agreed that sleeping in a car is not a crime, yet you threw in the possibility of driving while high. You realize that this is a written forum, and people can click back through and see the context of what is written, right?

Possibility of driving does not equate to driving. I literally didn't argue the guy drove. Notice in quotes I said "temptation of driving"? If you have a temptation of something did you actually do that something?

Why was he being arrested in the first place? He was asleep in a car. It is hard to smoke when you are asleep. So, why was the police officer there in the first place?

I already explained this. Out of the ordinary behavior is investigated. People don't regularly sleep in their cars possibly with their doors ajar and/or lights on.

Is it odd for people to sleep in cars? Was his door left open, and that is why the officer investigated? Are you just making up excuses now?

It doesn't show it in the video but I am quite sure that is the reason why the investigation was launched against him.

I did read the entire context. But, unfortunately, nowhere does it backtrack on your original claim of the government being corrupt and incompetent.

No obviously you didn't.

Again, make yourself clearer when you write and stop getting upset when people take you at your word.

But you literally didn't take me at my word in this very same comment when I quoted myself regarding temptation. You literally aren't taking me at my literal word.

Yes, yet that was not what you said. So, again, make yourself clearer when you write and stop getting upset when people take you at your word.

No you literally didn't take me at my word you wanker.

Yes. To point out your mistakes.

Ironic considering the above.

 

[Greg the Grouper]

It is the reality. It is the reason people absolutely hate politicians when they are actually made aware of their actions in the legislature. MAking omnibus bills and wasting everyone's time.

We should just all be leftists to be honest.

It isn't the fault of police that suspects don't know the law.

It might be their fault that several precincts across the country actively try to put their recruits through ineffective training that teaches them to be overtly aggressive. How are you even supposed to consider the possibility that someone might not be a threat when you're working with a manual that lists "hands" as an indicator of aggression?

If you can stomach paying fines and jailtime then don't risk that while committing a crime.

Not many people actually have this choice? I hate to break it to you, but when you live in a place with little in the way of economic opportunity and little in the way of educational infrastructure, your best bet to actually make money is through criminal enterprise.

Hmmm, I have a kid to feed that I can't really feed without making money, and the only way I can pay the bills right now is by pushing these drugs, but I don't wanna have to pay a fine or go to jail. Well, I guess we'll just starve, then.

That guy is dead because he is stupid plain and simple.

I don't understand why "poor" decision making is justification in your mind for someone's death.

Smoke weed,

You can't demonstrate this claim.

They are literal law enforcement officers they are there to use force in order to force compliance and/or fine and/or jail you.

That sounds pretty reductive, honestly. Yes, the police are empowered to use force; yes, the police can arrest you. Doesn't mean they should.

In the videos I see I don't see a majority of paranoid cops I see entirely reasonable people attempting to enforce the law as it is written.

And so far, I'd agree, based on the videos we've seen thus far. But then again, we don't determine social trends and mechanisms by watching a couple of youtube videos, especially when they're all pulled from the same source.

I've told you before, Bogan: ignoring data and instead favoring a few specific instances is a really stupid way to get an understanding of society in general.

The instances of so called police brutality are primarily nonsense or best case scenario the vast minority of police actions or police use of force.

And you would know this because of a handful of youtube videos? Sure thing, dude.

That would depend on those people you empower not to be corrupt. How do you guarantee this? You can't.

You can infer based on behavior, Bogan. Humans have done this for centuries.

So you have to act unilaterally without involvement of the Mexican government.

You may again be surprised to hear this, Bogan, but the US actually dwarfs the cartel in essentially all aspects: scope, reach, resources, so on. What makes you think we couldn't just buy someone off, promise them amnesty and immunity to prosecution, and use their info to bring down the cartel?

It is to illustrate how pointless those laws are and those are type of laws being suggested as a majority in failed bills and currently being pushed by the Biden administration. It is literally involved in preventing the passage of other laws that have majority support.

Ok so mask mandate when you walk into a restaurant and then you immediately sit next to other people and take off your mask in order to eat.

You get on and off the flight at an airline for TSA checks then you go onto the aircraft and you are literally sitting next to someone breathing recirculated air.

Gun range example I gave previously. Wear a mask so you can be less competent while handling a firearm to protect yourself against a disease that is about as deadly as the flu and less deadly considering people in certain categories.

All three are totally ridiculous.

Restaurants assume that you're with people you spend time with on a regular basis.

Airlines make you wear your mask for the entire flight, and check you for symptoms before letting you past security.

I can't really speak to your profession.

I will concede, however, that these measures are all compromises to keep businesses running.

No not at least in my state as the mask mandates were challenged and people know they are not laws anymore. You literally cannot enforce them using police. Restaurants are already in hole due to the fact that Covid has forced many businesses to shut down. They are not going to implement or enforce them at a business level when they are so weakened and when they cannot be fined.

If I was a business owner I wouldn't risk my business shutting down over arbitrary masks and also the people who plainly don't care to wear a mask. Why would I go through the extra effort in order to negatively effect my business in closing down when it is determined to be illegal and requiring masks when mask mandates are not laws and therefore cannot be enforced.

They can't be enforced, but the regular rights of a business owner can. A business has every right to require that patrons and staff wear masks, and have every right to call police and have patrons that refuse to comply escorted off the premises.

Not every business owner thinks solely about making money immediately. Some might see the wisdom in promoting public safety and health to avoid future shut downs or just customer and employee drop off resulting from illness and death.

 

[Patty P]

We should just all be leftists to be honest.

That just seems like a weird thing to say.

 

[Greg the Grouper]

That just seems like a weird thing to say.

Nah.

 

[Patty P]

Nah.

I mean, that is a weird thing to say. Everyone should not be leftists, ideological diversity is pretty nice imo.

 

[Greg the Grouper]

I mean, that is a weird thing to say. Everyone should not be leftists, ideological diversity is pretty nice imo.

There's plenty of ideological diversity among leftists, be it guns, form of government, etc.

Diversity including things such as race realism, transgender discrimination, and policies that deprive the poor of means by which they might find footing and improve their station don't really do much for society. Why would we entertain those things?

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

Irony - considering this forum is majority against me not standing with me. You guys are in an echo chamber not me. Again I left my echo chamber of agreement to come here in search of disagreement.

And tried (and failed) to ignore the people that were here. Oh, so brave.

Possibility of driving does not equate to driving. I literally didn't argue the guy drove. Notice in quotes I said "temptation of driving"? If you have a temptation of something did you actually do that something?

And much like a goldfish, you have already forgotten the context of me bringing this up. Again, we are only discussing this now because you brought it up. Why bring it up if you were not trying to use it as a justification?

Again, major dandan/leroy vibes.

I already explained this. Out of the ordinary behavior is investigated. People don't regularly sleep in their cars possibly with their doors ajar and/or lights on.

Yet his door was not ajar. When I sleep in my car, I do not leave my lights on. So I honestly do not see why the officers were bothering with this one in the first place.

It doesn't show it in the video but I am quite sure that is the reason why the investigation was launched against him.

You are quite sure, but you actually have no proof. Well, glad you are quite sure about it...

No obviously you didn't.

Yes, I did.

But you literally didn't take me at my word in this very same comment when I quoted myself regarding temptation. You literally aren't taking me at my literal word.

Again, you brought up the temptation of driving while high. Why bring it up unless you were trying to use it as a point in your favor?

No you literally didn't take me at my word you wanker.

Yes, I have, even in this little unrelated exchange.

Ironic considering the above.

Not really.

 

[Deleted member 619]

What...

I'd expand on that but, as I mentioned, I have no intention of saying word one other than flicking peanuts from the gallery until this complete cunt is entirely ejected.

I will say that I have said nothing I can't defend and, once this turd is history, I'll happily engage in all the discussion you like.

Until then. all intelligent discussion is off the table anyway, regardless of my participation, so I'm playing with the disgusting little creature until his forum extinction, at which point I'll engage in any topic you like.