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One theistic sales pitch I never bought, but we can all get our house in order.

BrachioPEP

Member
arg-fallbackName="BrachioPEP"/>
Some ramblings of a former fundamentalist. Anyone not interested, there's nothing to see here.

A common pleasure or claim to superiority that many theists have is the eternal joy and everlasting life they have, if it is true.

This has many flaws (and some benefits).

On the down side, it depends on whether YOU are one of the elite/elect/saved/faithful (depending on how you view salvation and whether you can lose it or not) and whether you will remain saved at death/judgement.

You might also have got it wrong, not just your religion or deity or concept of It/Him/Her/Them, but also your denomination, with there being so many, and numerous interpretations being very different on significant issues like escatology and salvation.

Some denominations do not take heaven (or hell) literally or consider it to be different to what others see it as. Some think that there is a purgatory and/or all (eventually) go to heaven. Some do not take the resurrection literally or are not Trinitarians or consider salvation about faith or works or a new earth and so on.

Those who consider that heaven and hell is literal and eternal must also consider that there may be many loved ones who will not make it to paradise and others believe souls can be prayed for after their earthly demise. This must also take its toll on believers. In fact it is especially difficult to see how a human being (who takes the inerrant text of fundamental heaven and hell literally) can ever sleep with such a horrific concept or burden. It is bad enough worrying about all the current suffering in the world, but to believe in the cold light of day that many of your own family and friends have and will spend eternity burning in hell is not something that just trusting in God knowing best can make anyone sleep any better.

For me, the thought or concept of heaven was never a nice one. What if I got bored? What if that was just a stage and there was something after and the end was not final or perfect and there were further tests? So (as a committed Evangelical), I feared heaven and feared hell, for myself and everyone else. But I accepted and believed it and this was never the reason I escaped (i.e. that I ran away because I didn’t like the concept). I would be interested if any other fundamentalist feared heaven at all, or was it just me?

The concept of there being no God and there being nothing after death (to fear or look forward to) had far more appeal (but I didn’t believe it). My view on the Christian afterlife may well have been skewed in my mind and it may have actually been wonderful in the hazy Biblical teaching on it, but the concept of nothing, forever was much more appealing, safe and secure. I knew where I stood. It seemed odd that one of the most appealing things about Christianity (whether you are a Christian already or looking to become one or be converted, is the, ‘after death’ bit, and yet even as a believer, I envied (the belief of) atheists on this point. I was aware of the teachings and why my position should have been better, but still, I didn’t like it. And the fear of hell was a dual burden (a Christian with a fear of heaven AND hell) which stayed with me for some time after leaving fundamentalism.

Yes, death is (for most people) sad and scary and something we don’t want to happen or face, but that is usually because we are focussed on the life we leave/left, our memories, the sadness of some we leave behind, the thoughts of never having to experience anything ever again. This affects theists and atheists (and most in between) alike. It is a seeming contradiction, that we believe there is nothing, we know it will happen, but we don’t seem prepared. And there will be a time, if it has not occurred already, when most of you will lie in bed and consider this whole thing and be sad.

Choosing what we believe should rarely be based on hope or upbringing or what sounds nicer or which salesperson or intellect is the most convincing, it should be based on the evidence and rational thinking.

This is not a commercial for life insurance, but whoever we are and whatever age, religious or not, it is always worth considering our lives and deaths and others.

  • Was/is life worthwhile and could we do better? We may have less time than we think or hope.
  • What will we leave behind in terms of a legacy, reputation?
  • How will/do others feel about us?
  • What about the complete mess of stuff we leave behind for others to go through (and how embarrassing might bits be)? We may be gone but gossip and people will hang around for a while.
  • Did we tie up any loose ends or things we wanted to do or say to anyone? Why not leave a diary to be read or shared with any regretful bits?
  • Is there anything we want(ed) to legally leave for anyone to save dispute and costs? Buy a DIY kit or get it sorted. You can update it anytime.
  • Death may not be yours, but someone else you love, so don’t leave anything n ice unsaid.
  • Whilst you may be dead/no longer here, others will; and will still have memories and things to say, so make your life count and put things right, now (or before your allocated time/date if you are so fortunate enough to know it).
Peace.
 
arg-fallbackName="Led Zeppelin"/>
A common pleasure or claim to superiority that many theists have is the eternal joy and everlasting life they have, if it is true.

I think this actually might be more common among people who I would presume are actually atheist. I have very often in my life heard people bragging about one day being in Hell with all their friends when they die.
 
arg-fallbackName="BrachioPEP"/>
I think this actually might be more common among people who I would presume are actually atheist. I have very often in my life heard people bragging about one day being in Hell with all their friends when they die.



No. Atheists don't brag about being in hell. Of course, lots may joke or talk ignorantly about things like that, (perhaps contrasting a prayer meeting with a boys night out at a pub and a strip joint) but obviously an atheist rejects such things. Atheists condemn how God can allow such suffering (when arguing about the existence of God); they may say it with passion or horror too, but that is based on the argument’s or the believer’s perception, not their own.

What I meant to say (but put badly) is that a key point or benefit or assurance for believers is the eternal joy of/in heaven (and/or the contrast of eternal damnation). Atheists cannot compete with this, having no hope or security or future after life, just… nothing, replenishing the universe with their second hand atoms.

The overall point I was making is that for me, the winning post, trophy, point and thing in which Jesus died for, had no appeal for me (and I was a pastor), which may seem odd, and I dare say a minority view.
 
arg-fallbackName="Led Zeppelin"/>
No. Atheists don't brag about being in hell.

Atheists aren't a super group of beings that never do one thing or another. It's ridiculous for you to say that an atheist would never brag about going to hell. Everyone knows this is not true.
 
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