My new tactic for dealing with creationists

[Laurens]

I'm tired of going over the same arguments time and time again.

My new tactic is this:

Point at them and laugh at their stupid.

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."

- Thomas Jefferson

I think we're going about it all wrong by trying to engage creationists in serious debate. That is exactly what they're looking for. It legitimises their position, and they can use it to give off the impression that the two positions are somehow on equal ground.

From this moment forth, I shall not engage a creationist in a serious exchange. It is not worth the time and effort, and it gives them the false impression of legitimacy. I'm just going to sit here and laugh heartily at their foolishness.

If nobody took creationists seriously, and never addressed any of their claims other than to take the piss (in the same way you might ridicule a flat-earther) do you think this would have any effect? Or would you say engaging them seriously is a better tactic?

 

[Thomas Doubting]

Yeah i am sick of it too.. like Mr hitchens said, open hatred towards religions, offensive argumentation and ridicule towards religious muppets, not that it works very well, but nothing else does anyway... except for medication and hypnosis maybe but the world isn't ready for that yet :lol:

 

[Welshidiot]

I think the answer is to avoid "serious" debate with creationists, and to avoid ridicule also. Instead I think we'd be better served by simply promoting reason, study and science.

I think fighting any attempts to impose any kind of dogma on education, or secular rights is vital also, but I think we'd be best served by keeping those efforts limited to political and legal action against any such imposition. And again, we should publicly promote reason, study and science in defiance of such dogma.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I'm kind of a fan in real life of cutting off discussion with creationists, because there's no profit in it for me. You know what I say to Christians?

"Go convince the Jews. Let me know when you're done.Then convince all the other denominations of Christians that you've got the one correct interpretation."

Seriously. If they all believe in a god, and they can't convince each other of the details, I don't think they have anything to say to me. At all.

 

[Thomas Doubting]

One thing i find interesting when it comes to debates.. they defend "only god" most of the time, god here god there, god everywhere, "GODDIDIT" is applicable for pretty much everything, rest is humans being too stupid to understand, free will and random.
But when you ask them why they are so sure that their version of god is THE one, among thousands of other gods, many of them much older than their own version, many being a similar concept, most of them totally unknown to them, they have only their faith to offer.. and special pleading.. "my god is real because i believe in him"
correct me if i'm wrong, i do wish to see some good arguments, but so far all i heard personally or on vids/forums, summed up and interpreted means simply that they believe because they were programmed to believe.. thats about it.

If i hear "my imaginary boss sent his only son to die for our sins and i know it because some people wrote it in my book and others keep saying it 10 times per day" one more time in the next few days, i might throw a tantrum. "I know his mother was a virgin because she said so although i can't even be sure she ever existed but hey, nobody is perfect" :facepalm:
"my god offers me an eternal orgasm instead of eternal punishment which is what you get, so.. what do you have to offer?" :roll:

On a different note, humor is a strong weapon, they ignore science, they ignore logic, they ignore reality.. but pride.. if you hit the right spot, it hurts their pride and many religious people have way too much of that, if you manage to shake off their arrogance or hurt their God (or their super ego) you might have a chance to break through the protective bubble and force them to think halfway rationally about the one or other argument.. at least according to my own experience. The biggest problem there is it doesn't take much for them to get a "faith boost" back to being a 100% religious zombie, much easier if they get backed up by some other muppet, "our combined stupidity is invincible"

btw i like this one a lot

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

I completely agree that engaging creationists in a debate is pointless at best and harmful (in the sense that it legitimizes their position) at most. That is why if I ever engage a creationist I make it clear that we are not having a debate. At most, we are having a discussion, but more likely, I am just educating and correcting them.

I think ridicule would only help on looking fence sitters, not the creationists being ridiculed. Most of the creationists I have dealt with are Christian, so they have a persecution complex. I would think that ridiculing them would only reinforce that persecution complex. I would think the same might be true for Muslims as well since many of them (in the U.S. at least) are already being persecuted. They might just see the ridicule of their creation beliefs as more ridicule of their religion.

However, there seems to be some cases in which standing up to creationists is the only coarse of action. A recent example was in Texas when they were reviewing textbook standards. In an example like that, it seems like one must engage the creationists; ridicule would not help. Nevertheless, even in that case, the engaging of the creationists should be in an educational capacity and not a debate.

 

[Squawk]

I have no answer, and no idea if I have ever managed to convince a creationist of anything, ever. The wall of stupidity is strong in the indoctrinated. Would be nice if one told me I had broken through, but none have, so I'm left to ponder if my efforts are, for the most part, in vain (this discounts those few on these boards who have been convinced by the weight of evidence, but I can hardly claim sole responsibility, if any, for that).

 

[Thomas Doubting]

I have no answer, and no idea if I have ever managed to convince a creationist of anything, ever. The wall of stupidity is strong in the indoctrinated. Would be nice if one told me I had broken through, but none have, so I'm left to ponder if my efforts are, for the most part, in vain (this discounts those few on these boards who have been convinced by the weight of evidence, but I can hardly claim sole responsibility, if any, for that).

Well i am done running away and i am done putting up with their crap, also loling people is a lot of fun so i combine a ton of sturdy arguments with the cold truth about their idiocy, blind trust, hopeless hope and utterly moronic crap in their fairy tales.. I am pretty sure i never "converted somebody to reality", whether it scratches on their perverted picture of reality or not is not even the point anymore, but i do hope it does once in a while, however making fun of them by using logic and proof is helping me deal with the harsh reality of having zombies around me who use every chance to fuck up the world and the progress that humanity makes. My country has pretty much no atheists and if i don't ridicule them i will get too depressed or even verbally aggressive.

 

[Laurens]

When someone sits there stern-faced and claims that T-Rex was a veggie, what other reaction is there than to burst out laughing at their sheer stupidity? I mean you could tear your hair out in despair, but that's not good for your health.

 

[Welshidiot]

When someone sits there stern-faced and claims that T-Rex was a veggie, what other reaction is there than to burst out laughing at their sheer stupidity? I mean you could tear your hair out in despair, but that's not good for your health.

Calmly tell them they're wrong. If they become genuinely unpleasant towards you admonish them for it, but don't sink to their level.
That's another way to deal with it.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

When someone sits there stern-faced and claims that T-Rex was a veggie, what other reaction is there than to burst out laughing at their sheer stupidity? I mean you could tear your hair out in despair, but that's not good for your health.

Luckily, this has never happened to me in real life. However, whenever I do come across a claim like this, I do laugh. I just usually do not point out that their claim made me laugh. If this ever did happen to me in real life, I think I would burst out laughing in their face, and than I would apologize. I would than go over why exactly they are wrong and maybe show how even other creationists do not agree with their claim (e.g.) because it is just that ludicrous.

 

[impiku]

I stopped arguing with creationists after a debate with a pastor. Waste of time if the creationist is completely closed minded which is like 90% of the case.

 

[Thomas Doubting]

more like 99% if you ask me.

 

[Laurens]

I'd go out on a limb and say 100% of the time

 

[impiku]

I never understood creationists. Even when I was a Christian, I thought it was downright insane to hold literal creationist interpretation, I tried to take it metaphorically to reconcile my Christian beliefs with Evolution. And yeah, most creationists are hopeless, rational discourse and evidence cannot break through their dogma.

 

[Laurens]

I never understood creationists. Even when I was a Christian, I thought it was downright insane to hold literal creationist interpretation, I tried to take it metaphorically to reconcile my Christian beliefs with Evolution. And yeah, most creationists are hopeless, rational discourse and evidence cannot break through their dogma.

Their dogma explicitly states that they are required to ignore evidence. Take Answers in Genesis' statement of faith for example:

By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

They freely and openly admit everything that is wrong with their position.

 

[Thomas Doubting]

well it has something.. the perfect strategy to win any debate and be convinced you are right.

win as in.. the smart one gives up.

 

[RedYellow]

I've argued with them mostly out of morbid curiosity, to see how far the human mind is willing to carry the most indefensible ideas. Also because it's easy, even for a regular joe like me who isn't an expert in any of the fields that come up in discussion. That's really what's sad about their position, that even just mostly casual onlookers can rip apart their arguments. I usually just try to show them the scope of their denial by pointing out how, in order to hold such a position they basically are saying that either 99% of the world's biologists, which just about anyone could become if they really tried, must be lying and involved in some massive conspiracy, or are just all somehow mistaken or incompetent. And if you believe either of those things, you could prove them if they were true. Why have no creationists gone undercover as biologists to expose the conspiracy? Or even better, just become actual biologists?

 

[Deleted member 619]

Welcome aboard. This has been my tactic for a very long time.

 

[nemesiss]

i was thinking about i little list of things you'd need to know to 'debate' and win.
these are a few points i think can really help, based on the debate of sam harris Vs William Lane Craig.

1 - do NOT debunk
it costs too much time, which doesn't give you the time to make YOUR point.
it also gives your opponent more time to preach, because they don't have to spend much time to defend their argument.

2 - never under estimate stupidity
they may have no idea what their talking about, but they can spew out more wrongs then you can correct.
don't correct them, make them want to reject their own argument.

3 - when they dirty, focus the dirt
when they know they can't really win the argument, they will try anything to muddy the argument so that they can't claim they lost (such as emotional pleads). but whatever they throw at you, you can throw it back and hit them where it hurts.