Jesus ben Damneus

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

I watched a debate between AronRa and Michael Hardin on the historicity of Jesus, on The Place, hosted by the New Covenant Group:



Although there are several bones of contention I have with various claims in the discussion, I'm only focussing on the topic's issue.

At 24:45-25:30, they argue over whether Jesus ben Damneus is mentioned by Josephus or not - Hardin denies that this appears in the text (Josephus' Antiquities, book 20, chapter 9, paragraph 1) and wonders from where Dr. Robert Price gets this.

According to the Wiki resource, the William Whitson translation reads:

The Antiquities of the Jews: 20.9.1[/url]"]CONCERNING ALBINUS UNDER WHOSE PROCURATORSHIP JAMES WAS SLAIN; AS ALSO WHAT EDIFICES WERE BUILT BY AGRIPPA.

1. AND now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees,[23] who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent.[24] Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.

As one can see, the last line in this paragraph explicitly mentions Jesus, the son of Damneus.

Also, the Flavius Josephus website's copy corroborates Wiki's translation.

So, I'm not sure what text Hardin is reading when he says it makes no mention of this Jesus.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[SpecialFrog]

Is it possible some translations render it as Joshua? I can see Christians translating some iterations of the name differently depending on if they think it is supposed to be "Jesus" or not.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Is it possible some translations render it as Joshua? I can see Christians translating some iterations of the name differently depending on if they think it is supposed to be "Jesus" or not.

I've been looking for the Loeb Greek-English translation online but am having no success.

I can only think that the "son of Damneus" phrase appears in English translations, like Whitson's, but not in the Loeb one?!

Otherwise, I'm perplexed!

Kindest regards,

James

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

I loved that show. I have seen several episodes of "The Place" and they have always been good.

I have to say that Hardin says "son ben Damneus" does not appear in the Greek. I think he is implying that translations of that text got it wrong. I do not know Greek, so I cannot verify that claim.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

I loved that show. I have seen several episodes of "The Place" and they have always been good.

I have to say that Hardin says "son ben Damneus" does not appear in the Greek. I think he is implying that translations of that text got it wrong. I do not know Greek, so I cannot verify that claim.

Agreed - Dr. Jones is a very reasonable individual.

It seems inconceivable that the various translations - from Whitson's of 1747 to the most recent Loeb one, including the one on Josephus,org - are all wrong(!!)

For that reason, I wish Hardin had read what the text actually said.

Kindest regards,

James