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I want to oppose Islam...
- Thread starter Epiquinn
- Start date
Nom_de_Plume
New Member
I have no idea, but I want the same thing.Epiquinn said:
Actually Islam and the extremist followers scare the crap outta me.
One muslim I can deal with, I have a couple of muslim customers.
It's when they get together in a group that I lose my nerve. Yes, I'm a big chicken and should be ashamed (I am, don't worry)
My uncle in the UK sent me this video a couple of weeks ago, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0hKEd6rzbeg
This woman is braver than I, I don't think I'd have the nerve to get involved in that.
australopithecus
Active Member
Not sure how one opposes Islam in general.
1) If you live in a country with liberal freedom of speech laws, you could protest in front of mosques.
2) If you are a decent writer, you could create a blog and/or self publish a book.
3) Create a YouTube account and create Islamic injustice vids.
2) If you are a decent writer, you could create a blog and/or self publish a book.
3) Create a YouTube account and create Islamic injustice vids.
Laurens
New Member
Be very clear in your use of language. Avoid using the term 'Islam' when you're actually talking about radical Islam. Avoid sentences that begin with 'all Muslims believe...'. Speak the truth (which would require at least some rudimentary research), and avoid generalisations.
Prolescum
New Member
Just to reiterate what Laurens says, pay attention to your language. An example I came across recently was the term "Eurabia", when a person was talking about the Islamic conquer of Europe. We know only a few tens of millions of Muslims are Arabian, and the immigrant populations of Europe come from all over the place; Indonesia, Pakistan, various African states and so on.
It's purpose is to associate Muslims as exclusively as possible with the image of Islamic terrorists in western media, the Arab Wahabbi (like Bin Laden), and attempts to hide its bigoted undertones behind the inherent humour of neologisms.
This is extremely important because, like those caricatures of Jews as greedy, slobbering pigs and devils from the early 20th century, it is simply propaganda.
Be clear to distinguish between sects (the differences between a Sufi and a Wahabbi, a Sunni and a Shia are spiritual and political), political ideologies, and governments when appropriate, and generalisations should be limited and somewhat verifiable (all Muslims believe in Allah is fine, all Muslims believe in a worldwide caliphate is not). The Iranian government isn't the same as the Saudi, the Palestinians are not likely to care about turning Britain into an Islamic state etc.
It's purpose is to associate Muslims as exclusively as possible with the image of Islamic terrorists in western media, the Arab Wahabbi (like Bin Laden), and attempts to hide its bigoted undertones behind the inherent humour of neologisms.
This is extremely important because, like those caricatures of Jews as greedy, slobbering pigs and devils from the early 20th century, it is simply propaganda.
Be clear to distinguish between sects (the differences between a Sufi and a Wahabbi, a Sunni and a Shia are spiritual and political), political ideologies, and governments when appropriate, and generalisations should be limited and somewhat verifiable (all Muslims believe in Allah is fine, all Muslims believe in a worldwide caliphate is not). The Iranian government isn't the same as the Saudi, the Palestinians are not likely to care about turning Britain into an Islamic state etc.
Anachronous Rex
New Member
Get in touch with some Iranian Republicans and ask what you can do to help.Epiquinn said:
Dogma's Demise
New Member
Epiquinn said:
Well, you just don't really, tell people to stop guilt-tripping you by association.
But you might want to consider some of the viewpoints expressed by nationalists. I mean I don't agree with a lot of the things they say, but a more conservative approach to immigration might just help limit the spread of radical Islam. (Sure some people convert, whether we like it or not, the main source of radical Islam is immigration and not enough done to integrate them.)Oh, if you want to oppose Islam in general, well simply talk to Muslims, ask them why they believe, show them the absurdities and atrocities in their holy books etc. Islam ain't a race so it's not racism, remind them of that.
australopithecus
Active Member
Dogma's Demise said:
It might also stop the spread of over-charging Polish plumbers, but that's not a justification for endorsing typically right wing nationalist policies.
Dogma's Demise said:
The main source of radical Islam, is Islam, not migration.
Dogma's Demise
New Member
australopithecus said:
Look, my point was, the increase in the number of adherents in Europe is not mainly due to conversion, but mainly due to immigration. Let's not make category errors here.
This is a crucial point because foreign nationals don't really have a right to be in the country, it's just a privilege. For example if I wanted to travel to America, even for a visit, I would have to go through an interview and I might get declined for apparently trivial reasons. In fact I'd be surprised to see anyone who openly states "I believe in the implementation and domination of Sharia law and the abolition of the American constitution" get into the United States. As I said, you can get declined for MUCH less than that.
Think of this analogy: You're a guest in someone's home. You misbehave, you're out. Immigration is not inherently bad, but it should be a win-win situation and right now another Choudary clone is the last thing a western country needs.
Laurens
New Member
Dogma's Demise said:
I think you're ignoring the fact that many British Muslims (i.e: those who were born here) become radicalised via the internet or through radical preachers. It doesn't seem so much that people are coming here in droves bringing their ideology with them, rather the ideology is spreading among young European Islamic residents, who are exposed to it online or elsewhere.
This is why even if our borders were completely closed radical Islam would still reach people. Do you propose the shutting down of the internet as well as stopping brown people from entering the country? Or perhaps you'd prefer that we sent the resident brown folks off somewhere else?
The problem has little to do with immigration. If you closed the borders of Britain today, they'd still be a bunch of Islamic residents living here (as citizens), some of whom might become radicalised...
Gila Guerilla
New Member
Also ask questions, hear the answers, and respond to the answers. Ask for justifications, evidence etc. with regard to the answers given. Then state your own point of view, with its own justifications, evidence etc.Laurens said:
Perhaps a primary methodology of question asking will help avoid unintentionally setting up straw men and misunderstandings, only to be bested by some reply such as: "You don't understand our religion".
)O( Hytegia )O(
New Member
Just don't use generalizations, and remember that the only shitty thing about Islam over any other belief is the fundamentalists.
People can hold a religion and still be people.
And remember that the only resolution to curing fundamentalism and extremism is education and not direct and challenging assertion.
It's slow, but it works.
People can hold a religion and still be people.
And remember that the only resolution to curing fundamentalism and extremism is education and not direct and challenging assertion.
It's slow, but it works.
ImprobableJoe
New Member
Well, just remember that opposing religion is opposing religion, and you are doing it wrong if you find yourself with a double standard or saying "but Religion X is different!" to justify your position.
Dragan Glas
Well-Known Member
Greetings,
I think you need to clarify that.
From your stated intention, I'd infer that your wish to oppose Islam is tarring all Muslims as "fundies" or terrorists.
If it's your concern with the more radical element in Islam, then allying yourself with secular Muslims would be a starting point - in the same way that one would ally oneself with secular Jews to oppose the ultra-orthodox, right-wing element.
Here are some suggestions:
Secular Islam | Project Reason
International Society for Islamic Secularization - CSI
There's an old article from the New Humanist magazine, which may help dispel the idea that Islam was always radical.
I'd echo the warnings others have given above - being "anti-" any religion will make you the target of the most religious amongst its followers - and threats of and violence may be the result.
Kindest regards,
James
Why?Epiquinn said:
I think you need to clarify that.
From your stated intention, I'd infer that your wish to oppose Islam is tarring all Muslims as "fundies" or terrorists.
If it's your concern with the more radical element in Islam, then allying yourself with secular Muslims would be a starting point - in the same way that one would ally oneself with secular Jews to oppose the ultra-orthodox, right-wing element.
Here are some suggestions:
Secular Islam | Project Reason
International Society for Islamic Secularization - CSI
There's an old article from the New Humanist magazine, which may help dispel the idea that Islam was always radical.
I'd echo the warnings others have given above - being "anti-" any religion will make you the target of the most religious amongst its followers - and threats of and violence may be the result.
Kindest regards,
James
Epiquinn said:
Way i see it you shouldn't oppose Islam per se. You should oppose the problems associated with it directly. I for example wouldn't say i'm opposed to Islam. I would say I'm opposed to: different treatment or rules on women, in acting laws without a secular reason, punishing people for leaving a religion i.e. thought crime, using fear to sway someone's beliefs or actions, attempting to silence those who oppose you, reacting with violence for having your beliefs challenged, etc.
This way you're not singling out Islam over other religions nor are you opposing all Muslims rather than just the ones advocating the crap listed above.Basically rather than saying "I oppose Islam because of this and that" just say "I oppose this and that" with its origins being irrelevant. Granted it is a mouthful but the people who would criticize you for opposing "this and that", those are the people you should offend.
I'm not sure if i'm getting my point across but do you understand what i mean?