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Historical documentation to what?

Dirigoproductions

New Member
arg-fallbackName="Dirigoproductions"/>
The following is an overview to my upcoming book and film, both titled, Historical Jesus. I am new to this site and just getting my feet wet and hope you enjoy the material contained within. If you would like to find more information concerning this topic, please see the attached links at the bottom of this post.

When one looks into the historical documents of ancient civilizations, what would we expect to find? Perhaps stories of daily life? Religious and spiritual beliefs? Or perhaps ideas about political ideologies, such as the ones that first appear in the writings of Plato and Aristotle.

Egypt is one of those civilizations that exemplifies what ancient man was trying to accomplish. The temples of Luxor and Medinet Habu are prime examples of this. We have numerous hieroglyphs and papyrus scrolls preserved with the story of their daily lives accompanied with their spiritual and metaphysical beliefs.

In ancient Rome we also learn the same thing, however, most stories are based on what we would call mythical fairy tales comparative to that of ancient Egypt regarding the stories of Isis, Osirus and Horus. In Homer's Iliad, for example, we are provided with a literal road map to the ancient city of Troy, yet we find it difficult to fathom Homer's claim that he encountered a cyclops upon his travels. The same can be attributed to the stories of Phlegon of Tralles, who lived in the middle Second Century CE, during the reign of Emperor Hadrian. In his book titled, Marvels. He speaks of monstrous births, ghosts, prophecies by talking heads and large skeletons that came to life. We find Phlegon's writings to be nothing more than superstition full of mythical overtones.

On a side note to these glorious stories, one thing we do learn from antiquity, is the meticulous record keeping of both Roman and Greek historians. For example, they would describe the life of a man, for the most part, down to most minute of details. Since this is well documented, than we would expect to find nothing short of a literary masterpiece, outside of biblical text, regarding a historical Jesus of Nazareth.

However, this simply isn't the case. To my surprise, after extensive research and study, little is ever told about a man named Jesus. Christian scholars will commonly cite seven authors, who they claim offers evidence that a historical Jesus ever lived. There names are Thallus, Phlegon, Mara Bar-Separion, Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the younger and Josephus.

The most we learn about from these writings is that
a) Christians existed in the latter part of the First Century CE, and
b) they believed, or worshiped a Christ.

There were numerous writers that lived in and around Rome during the reported life of Jesus, especially during the time that he was said to have been crucified, resurrected and ascended into heaven.

The earliest reference Christian scholars claim offers veracity to a historical Jesus is a letter written by Mara bar-Separion to his son, from the confines of a Roman jail. What Christian scholars of today fail to mention is that he never mentions a Jesus, nor does he mention any Christians? Many self proclaimed messiahs lived in and around Rome before, during and after the reported life of a Jesus of Nazareth. Christ is a title, meaning anointed and is attributed to many self proclaimed Messiahs during the First and Second Century. During this time, Jews were constantly searching for their Messiah to lead there people away from Roman oppression and to form an independent Jewish nation.

The only reference to a Jesus as Christ (or messiah) came from Josephus in his Testimonium Flavianum, which was encompassed in his book, titled, Jewish Antiquities. This so called documentation was said to be written in 96 CE, a mere 63 years after Jesus' reported crucifixion, hardly enough to qualify as evidence to a first hand account of the man.

The other cited authors, listed above, wrote anywhere from the early to middle Second Century, which only attest to a bunch of Christians following a Christ. As previously noted, this Christ could have been anyone proclaiming himself a messiah and early Christians, very easily, could have believed in the myth of a Jesus Christ verses a historical one they never met.

What we don't learn are any specifics associated with the life of Jesus as professed in the canonical gospels. Not a single person alive during the time of a reported Jesus ever writes a thing about him? More importantly, in the Epistles of Paul, who wrote close to 80,000 words about Jesus. If indeed a Jesus of Nazareth did exist on earth, Paul never knew about it. Not once does he place Jesus on earth, nor does he know anything about him. He never mentions his childhood, ministry, miracles, mother Mary, a manger, King Herod, Pontius Pilate, the revolts by Jews, a virgin birth or anything else that would have attested to the specifics of a Jesus as described in the Gospels. Paul only mentions the crucifixion, resurrection and assention of a Jesus. In these three events, Paul never places Jesus on earth? According to Paul, these events were of a heavenly nature which smells like nothing more than a myth to me. The one person who is supposed to have known everything about the Jesus he ministered, and was subsequently beheaded for, doesn't know a single thing about him.

In short, we have zero evidence corroborating an historical Jesus of Nazareth ever existed and the topics discussed here will be detailed and explained much farther in both my upcoming book and film due to be released this summer.

I hope you found this information interesting and useful and thank you for your time.

Please visit me at the following websites:

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnhart30
http://www.myspace.com/dirigoproductions
http://www.historicaljesusmovie.com

Respectfully yours,

Dirigo Productions
 
arg-fallbackName="DarwinsOtherTheory"/>
That was a nice read, it bugs me to hear apologists gloat about all this historical evidence, first there is none, like you mention everything with know about jesus comes from the bible and we have no outside sources. There's also the jewish exodus and other things mentioned in the bible that we cannot corroborate with outside sources.

I think the most important point is that even if we had perfect historical records, they would not be sufficient to prove, for example, a resurrection or any other miracle and if we did trust those accounts we would have to trust pretty much every myth and legend in human history.
 
arg-fallbackName="buzzausa"/>
The information was indeed very interesting. Sounds like you've done your research. And though I do not claim to have done any research of my own I have come across most of the facts and sources you mention and to my recollection..you're dead on.
I particularly enjoyed how you pointed out that in other ancient literary works the elements of myth are easily recognized but when it comes to the bible...it's a different story.
For example some time back I happened to witness a conversation between two friends of mine. One, devout Christian, the other from a different country where Christianity is not so popular. When asked why he believed in god and not ....say..Zeus...my Christian friend replied "well...but that's just mythology". :shock: :roll: I could not bring myself to step in and start an argument
 
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