Derren Brown perpetuating junk / pseudo-science

[xchillx42]

I think you miss the point of Derren's tricks, you see, they are meant to be tricks, replicating and investigating the real and unreal methods. he's not really perpetuating pseudo-science, he's experimenting to see which ones work and don't work. Why else would he get people to phone in with results...

 

[Prometheuswithlight]

Did anyone see Derrens Brown explanation of how he 'predicted' the lottery ?

It was quite disappionting, I wasn't expecting a masked magician style reveal but to spend an hour talking about things such as automatic writing, wisdom of crowds, collective pyschic abilities, 'deep math' (whatever this is supposed to mean) doesn't help the cause of trying to encourage critical thinking and to educate the public in the matters of the paranormal and pseudo-science. Especially when it comes from someone like Derren Brown, who, in the past, has rightly been sceptical about paranormal claims and has shown debunked the sort of crap he nows seems to be pedalling. People are buying it though, some people now geniunely believe through various methods that Derren used you can predict a lottery draw. Even though a minimal amount of maths background would allow you to see it as complete nonsense.

It's a force of habit. As a mentalist, he's used to taking advantage of lucky circumstances. He once went to perform a card trick for a kid, and had him pick a card. The kid freaked out. Apparently, the kid had been thinking of that card the whole evening, and drew it by sheer luck. Derren simply didn't correct him, even though he explained it in his book.

Example, Derren used to do a trick at the start of one his stage shows and then proclaim that is the last trick you will see. He says everything else pyschology, suggestion and reading people. He then goes on to do a whole show of traditional magic tricks wrapped up in mentalism. No pyschology, suggestion etc required, his fans lap it up. In my opionion this goes beyond tricking people and into the realms of conning people. How many of the people who watched the show, if told afterwards that what they saw was a traditional magic show, would feel cheated ? I don't know but I'd guess a fair percentage of them would.

From the sound of it, it was a lie so obvious, it's supposed to be funny.

So, do magicians like Derren Brown who has so much fans, fans who will believe anything he says have any social responsibility to not further pseudo-science and borderline paranormal nonsense and encourage critical thinking ?

Honestly, he does do quite a bit to encourage critical thinking. Just bear in mind, he's also an entertainer.
Compare him, if you would, to Uri Gellar.

 

[patduckles]

im shure your all aware of the monkey/typewriter/shakespeare thing.

well i put it to you all that some one gave this monkey a calculator, a pen and some air time

 

[Kevin R Brown]

I strongly dislike magicians as a whole. I make special exception for James Randy for his establishment of the JREF and his friendship with Carl Sagan, but even he I have to occasionally sigh at.

They perpetuate the same junk that they refute - they simply label it something different. Penn & Teller produce a show like Bullshit!, neither of them being experts in any of the subjects they espouse skepticism over, and all the while doing performances designed to convince people that the two individuals on stage are capable of the impossible. What's worse, there is the ridiculous 'code' among magicians not to reveal how illusions are done (Mr. Randy claims that this is to preserve the profession of magicians - I think that this is a very weak excuse for discarding transparency in such an important arena), only to replicate them and say, "See? I can do it, too. It's just an illusion."

With an explanation, all we're left with is the magician's word - and, frankly, that's - well - bullshit.


Imagine if we were told just to accept, say, the theory of evolution, while never being provided any evidence for it and any information about it being censored outside of academia in the name of some 'code' for preserving academic careers.

 

[DTBeast]

They perpetuate the same junk that they refute - they simply label it something different. Penn & Teller produce a show like Bullshit!, neither of them being experts in any of the subjects they espouse skepticism over, and all the while doing performances designed to convince people that the two individuals on stage are capable of the impossible.

I don't follow too many other magicians but Penn & Teller don't really pretend to do the "impossible" they would be the first ones to admit that it's all slight of hand, misdirection, smoke and mirrors, and the like. the ones who really annoy me are the kind that act like they have real supernatural abilities like Uri Geller.

 

[stuart]

Derren Brown may not claim to have mystical / supernatural powers, but he certainly claims to be able to use psychology and read body language and a whole host of other pseudo-scientific nonsense.

I genuinely believe that 90%+ of the people who are Derren Brown fans do not believe that what he is doing are just tricks and I think he uses this to his advantage to get bums in seats in theatres and people watching his TV shows.

How many people if shown how Derren Brown actually does his tricks, would then feel ripped off knowing they were just tricks ? I reckon most.

That's, IMO, dishonest.

 

[Wainscotting]

Derren Brown may not claim to have mystical / supernatural powers, but he certainly claims to be able to use psychology and read body language and a whole host of other pseudo-scientific nonsense.

I genuinely believe that 90%+ of the people who are Derren Brown fans do not believe that what he is doing are just tricks and I think he uses this to his advantage to get bums in seats in theatres and people watching his TV shows.

How many people if shown how Derren Brown actually does his tricks, would then feel ripped off knowing they were just tricks ? I reckon most.

That's, IMO, dishonest.

In every show that he does, he spells out that he's using magic tricks and that he's a performer first and foremost. He admits that it's a trick; that he's not going to tell you exactly how he did something.

Of course, his producers and editors cut out all the less 'interesting' bits which often he's prefer left in, which makes him look more magical, but, unlike the psychic medium or NLPer, he's not saying "behold my powers," he's saying "look at this cool trick."

 

[borrofburi]

Derren Brown may not claim to have mystical / supernatural powers, but he certainly claims to be able to use psychology and read body language and a whole host of other pseudo-scientific nonsense.

I genuinely believe that 90%+ of the people who are Derren Brown fans do not believe that what he is doing are just tricks and I think he uses this to his advantage to get bums in seats in theatres and people watching his TV shows.

How many people if shown how Derren Brown actually does his tricks, would then feel ripped off knowing they were just tricks ? I reckon most.

That's, IMO, dishonest.

In every show that he does, he spells out that he's using magic tricks and that he's a performer first and foremost. He admits that it's a trick; that he's not going to tell you exactly how he did something.

Of course, his producers and editors cut out all the less 'interesting' bits which often he's prefer left in, which makes him look more magical, but, unlike the psychic medium or NLPer, he's not saying "behold my powers," he's saying "look at this cool trick."

I'm inclined to agree with stuart, as I see more and more of Brown. I watched him in a chess match, and the youtube commenters posited that he won by reading the other guy's body language or using some form of psychological manipulation...

 

[stuart]

I think his latest serie The Experiments were his worst yet for spreading pseudo-science. Especially the Assassin one.

 

[australopithecus]

Bumping a thread that has been dead for over 2 years aside; care to expand on that opinion?

 

[Dean]

Bumping a thread that has been dead for over 2 years aside; care to expand on that opinion?

I suspect he may well have been hinting at the points in Brown's programs that could perhaps have been faked. Then again, he is an illusionist.

 

[Unwardil]

It's really easy.

The whole reason for the process is to fool you into thinking that he has done a trick.

He hasn't done a trick, he's just repeated the lottery numbers back to you as they are called out and then claimed he predicted them.