Infantile Lottery Sterilization

I am a liberal.

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I don't recognize the term 'liberal' as applying to a person who thinks forcibly sterilizing infants is a desirable idea. Individual freedoms and equality before the law?

If a couple could have one half of a baby, equality under the law would be so simple to achieve. But that is not how it works. For having any population control at all, I prefer China's one child policy, despite it's problems in China.

I note that China just reported it's first population decline in 50 years.


Despite it's flaws, this indicates the OCP is achieving it's original goals.

amorrow2 said:

If a couple could have one half of a baby, equality under the law would be so simple to achieve. But that is not how it works.

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What on Earth?

amorrow2 said:

I note that China just reported it's first population decline in 50 years.

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Despite it's flaws, this indicates the OCP is achieving it's original goals.

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LOL

The policy was modified beginning in the mid 1980s to allow rural parents a second child

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China Says It Will Allow Couples to Have 3 Children, Up From 2​

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Meanwhile, the growth of population increase has dropped across a huge number of countries all round the world in the same time period, yet none of them involved the state invading their personal liberties.

This is the problem with tyrants - they think they know what they're doing, but they're not only inevitably thick as shit, but too fucking stupid to know it.

And of course, we'll pretend the social ills arising from top-down dictatorial policy don't exist because facts are inconvenient to our cute little ideas of forcibly sterilizing infants.

So, amorrow, what's your final solution?

Kill the poor!

Eat the rich.

Greetings,

Sparhafoc said:

I don't recognize the term 'liberal' as applying to a person who thinks forcibly sterilizing infants is a desirable idea. Individual freedoms and equality before the law?

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In America, "liberal" doesn't mean what it means in Europe.

Kindest regards,

James

Dragan Glas said:

In America, "liberal" doesn't mean what it means in Europe.

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Sure, but in neither cultural meaning is it anti individual freedom and equality before the law.

There is always neo-liberalism, which is really bad for your personal freedom, equality and health.

What if, instead of randomly sterilizing people, we just went ahead and started World War 3? That might actually be feasible.

21st Demon Lord said:

There is always neo-liberalism, which is really bad for your personal freedom, equality and health.

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Factually, the rise of neoliberalism has coincided with greater personal freedoms, equality and health.

There are plenty of problems with neoliberalism, but not the above.

Uhm Sparhafoc, Dupont has poisoned the whole American continent with forever chemicals thanks to the US' lack of regulations. Or ... more recently, there is the opioid epidemic. Then there is the lack of gun control ... all very bad for my health. Nevermind the pollution.
As far as equality is concerned .. yeah ... I feel very close to Bezos, Musk, Gates and Zuckerberg. Nevermind the gig economy exploiting workers. Then there is literal slavery in US prisons ... well, not literally, I mean, they get 1 dollar a day for back breaking, life threatening labour.
And as far as freedom is concerned .. yeah, you got none in a neo-liberal country like America, you got the choice to either be exploited, drown in debt or end up starving on the street and die from an infection eventually.
All of that only applies though, if you do not have rich parents, in that case, neo-liberalism rules!
As far as I am concerned, neo-liberalism is the way back into feudal times.

I am dreading that children will go up the chimneys again in the UK, but I guess the US is one step ahead already:

@Sparhafoc @21st Demon Lord

Perhaps it might behoove the two of you to clarify what Neo-Liberalism is, and how it might differ from Liberalism?

Neo-Liberalism in a nutshell: No taxes, no regulations, no government, except for maintaining the military and borders and protecting your property from people that do not have any.
Its the wet dream of any rich and powerful sociopath and they are selling this hard in the US since Ronald Reagan and actually practicing it to an extent.
The Koch Brother(s) and Murdoch Media are pushing it hard. With great success sadly.
Neo-Liberalism is basically, why there is no gun control in the US, no healthcare, no social security .. and why the country is heavily polluted, poisoned and irradiated. Oh and why US politicans basically are in the pocket of corporation and the richest of the rich.
Think ... Reagan and Thatcher.

Liberalism on the other hand, means freedom to do what you want on a personal level. Legal weed, gay marriage and so on are things Liberals pushed. Up to the point were it infringes the freedom of someone else.

Then there are people posing as Liberals, but are basically after "the freedom to be an asshole". You know, those guys driving a hummer, saying racist things, tossing their trash everywhere ... and then go "You are taking my freedom away! Wearing a mask is slavery!" when you call them out for their behaviour.

psikhrangkur said:

@Sparhafoc @21st Demon Lord

Perhaps it might behoove the two of you to clarify what Neo-Liberalism is, and how it might differ from Liberalism?

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At its most basic, and where its core philosophy differs from simple liberalism, is its focus on market-oriented policy decision making.

21st Demon Lord said:

Neo-Liberalism in a nutshell: No taxes, no regulations, no government, except for maintaining the military and borders and protecting your property from people that do not have any.
Its the wet dream of any rich and powerful sociopath and they are selling this hard in the US since Ronald Reagan and actually practicing it to an extent.
The Koch Brother(s) and Murdoch Media are pushing it hard. With great success sadly.
Neo-Liberalism is basically, why there is no gun control in the US, no healthcare, no social security .. and why the country is heavily polluted, poisoned and irradiated. Oh and why US politicans basically are in the pocket of corporation and the richest of the rich.
Think ... Reagan and Thatcher.

Liberalism on the other hand, means freedom to do what you want on a personal level. Legal weed, gay marriage and so on are things Liberals pushed. Up to the point were it infringes the freedom of someone else.

Then there are people posing as Liberals, but are basically after "the freedom to be an asshole". You know, those guys driving a hummer, saying racist things, tossing their trash everywhere ... and then go "You are taking my freedom away! Wearing a mask is slavery!" when you call them out for their behaviour.

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I would say that none of this is at all accurate.

Neoliberalism is fundamentally European, originating with European scholars in the 1930's, and becoming the de facto primary government forms of post-world war 'Western' democracies from around the 70's onwards, including central European nations, the UK, and the wider English speaking world.

(Classical) Liberalism already contains the fiscal positions of low corporate taxes, less regulations on industry. Neoliberalism just makes market rationale central to many aspects of policy decision-making.

The post WW2 neoliberal order has actually been a time of near unparalleled peace and prosperity with no violent altercations between any of the Western world nations - because markets would be destabilized, and the market is basically sacred in neoliberalistic philosophy. In that time, those societies have become much more tolerant of others (including race, religion, sexuality, gender) and those nations have universally evolved their laws to become more judicially equitable - the fact is that free citizens with disposable income are the lifeblood of the growth market mentality, so neoliberal societies are actually benefited by expanding the net of citizens partaking in the economy. I obviously have to stress that this doesn't mean they've succeeded in making everyone equal before the law, but it is at least considered ideal in the abstract.

Neoliberalism has nothing at all to say about gun control (most predominantly neoliberal governed nations have gun control), nor healthcare - because most neoliberal nations have universal healthcare, nor.... all the rest because these are not factors of neoliberalism, but of factors specific to the US, not least its crazy Christian libertarian fringes.

Finally, I think you've unintentionally equivocated the economic policy of liberalism (classical/neo) with the social or moral philosophy liberalism - while the two words obviously share the same roots and have overlapping components, they are not expressly related, and can either support each other or be antagonistic in expectations. Classical/neo liberalism is about freedom of market forces. While liberalism, the sociopolitical philosophy, is concerned with governments protecting the freedom of individuals with individual, civil, and human rights, of a fair, equitable and transparent judicial system. A society can be both neoliberal and liberal in the latter sense, although there's always going to be a clash between what's good for people and what's good for business, and we've been witnessing that finally coming to the boil for the last decade or so.

For me, the big failures of neoliberalism are i) that it sees the market as an all-powerful arbitrating force, even in moral considerations ii) that because a free market provides such benefits, and that the market in turn benefits from more people participating in the market, then expansion of the market - growth - is the litmus test of a healthy economy, and this obviously does not incorporate the hard fact that the endless demand for growth is occurring in a finite world with finite resources, the extraction and consumption of which is putting a terrible strain on the planet's life-maintaining systems.

Nah Sparhafoc, I am using the modern American brand of neoliberalism, rather than the classical one.

And they have gone completly bonkers, bordering on Anarcho Capitalism.

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