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Electric Cars

arg-fallbackName="*SD*"/>
That's fine, as per my post I wasn't claiming that there are none in the UK, just that I've never happened across one even on my travels, and there are definitely none in my area.
 
arg-fallbackName="BoganUSAFFLClerk"/>
I think People would only switch to electric cars IF:
1) Costs were reasonable.
2) Charging stations commonplace
3) Performance was similar or exceeds given Gas or Diesel powered
4) Maintenance wasn't specialized
 
arg-fallbackName="*SD*"/>
Yes, eco concerns aside (battery disposal etc) for the moment, the practicality just isn't there for a lot of people. Can't tow with them, can't really offroad them, those are my own practicality issues which obviously don't apply to everyone, but until those things are addressed they're just of no use to me. I guess if someone just needs to zip around town occasionally they could be ok, but then I don't really get why they'd spend that sort of money on a car if that's all they need to do. Any major city, or even large-ish town (here) has a bus service from everywhere to everywhere within that city every 4 seconds anyway.
 
arg-fallbackName="ldmitruk"/>
*SD* said:
Yes, eco concerns aside (battery disposal etc) for the moment, the practicality just isn't there for a lot of people. Can't tow with them, can really offroad them, those are my own practicality issues which obviously don't apply to everyone, but until those things are addressed they're just of no use to me. I guess if someone just needs to zip around town occasionally they could be ok, but then I don't really get why they'd spend that sort of money on a car if that's all they need to do. Any major city, or even large-ish town (here) has a bus service from everywhere to everywhere within that city every 4 seconds anyway.
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The bus service depends on the city. Where I live, it's more like every 10 to 15 minutes, outside of rush hour, if you're lucky, and forget about late night service. North American cities are still too much wedded to everyone should drive everywhere.
 
arg-fallbackName="Led Zeppelin"/>
Sparhafoc said:
And of course, this is why I like to ground my positions on evidence, because just as we need to take into account stepping generated power, we'd also need to take into account delivering all that combustible liquid around, distributing it to local outlets, maintaining it safely etc. If we're trying to make an evidence-based comparison, then we can't just pick the bits we want.
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This is a great point.
 
arg-fallbackName="Desertphile"/>
Led Zeppelin said:
One can fill up a gas powered car with enough fuel to last a week in about 5 minutes or less. The area required to keep a city full of battery powered car depends on the amount of time it takes to charge the battery. It takes a considerable longer amount of time to charge a cars battery than it does to fill a tank with gasoline. There is not enough space in the city I live in to provide charging stations for all of us who want to own cars. Plus no one is talking about the added strain on the electrical grid.
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How much is a biosphere worth?

Fortunately there are new batteries being developed, made of glass, that charge in a few seconds and the energy density is superior to all current batteries. Best of all, a city can recover the cost of electrical in about five years. If the world went renewable energy, it would cost about 36 trillion dollars over the span of 5 years. If the world took 30 years it would cost about 110 trillion dollars.

Currently, humans are warming Earth by ~0.21c per decade. It does not matter how much it costs to replace fossil fuels with renewable energy: it must be done, and immediately.

How A $110 Trillion Green Recovery Can Save The World: New Report

www.forbes.com
 
arg-fallbackName="*SD*"/>
Desertphile said:
How much is Earth's biosphere worth?
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I appreciate the rhetoric, however, Bogan's comment isn't exactly incorrect. If people can't afford them, they aren't going to buy them. If they can afford them but they aren't suitable for their needs, they aren't going to buy them.

My own views on the topic aside, practicality will always reign.
 
arg-fallbackName="*SD*"/>
Desertphile said:
Ending the use of fossil fuels is mandatory: there is no other options.
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I assume by 'mandatory' you just mean 'we really should aim for this' as opposed to it being literally mandatory.
 
arg-fallbackName="BoganUSAFFLClerk"/>
There has been about 5 or 6 ice ages throughout recorded Earth history. The constant boom and bust of temperatures happened regardless of the presence of Industry of man. So if the concern about rapid global cooling after global rapid heating I think that tends to be inevitable.

If the technology meant that the performance of vehicles are equivalent or greater for their intended uses and the costs and complexities were the same or very similar I don't think many people would complain they would simply just upgrade instead of downgrade for significantly more cost given their use case.

I remain unconcerned or unconvinced it isn't quite clear what the end of result of climate change is and from various graphs seems to be an eventual ice age and not a preventable one.
 
arg-fallbackName="BoganUSAFFLClerk"/>
he_who_is_nobody said:
:rolleyes:

It does not. But, it also was not supposed to address that. It was in response to your claim that our actions are not linked to the current warming. So, again, work on your reading comprehension.
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My argument was that it isn't clear that ice ages are on the actions of man because they are throughout Earths history. I never made the argument that our actions never contribute. I am speaking in terms of trends the constant trends of boom and busts.

Total Strawman from you.
 
arg-fallbackName="he_who_is_nobody"/>
BoganUSAFFLClerk said:
My argument was that it isn't clear that ice ages are on the actions of man because they are throughout Earths history. I never made the argument that our actions never contribute. I am speaking in terms of trends the constant trends of boom and busts.

Total Strawman from you.
Click to expand...

BoganUSAFFLClerk said:
There has been about 5 or 6 ice ages throughout recorded Earth history. The constant boom and bust of temperatures happened regardless of the presence of Industry of man.

[Emphasis added]
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To be charitable, you are right that you did not argue our actions never contribute. However, reading that statement does seem to be touting the old canard of the climate is always changing.
 
arg-fallbackName="BoganUSAFFLClerk"/>
he_who_is_nobody said:
To be charitable, you are right that you did not argue our actions never contribute. However, reading that statement does seem to be touting the old canard of the climate is always changing.
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Yes literally the climate is always changing regardless of the presence of heavy industry of man that is confirmed. What is not confirmed is weather or not our interference results in something catastrophic. I would consider Ice ages catastrophic but those exist regardless. I am highly skeptical to this end and even more skeptical of other statements about going green at all costs or otherwise in the utmost degree.
 
arg-fallbackName="*SD*"/>
BoganUSAFFLClerk said:
Yes literally the climate is always changing regardless of the presence of heavy industry of man that is confirmed. What is not confirmed is weather or not our interference results in something catastrophic. I would consider Ice ages catastrophic but those exist regardless.
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I'm inclined to agree with this. It's way outside of my usual small sphere of topics I engage with, and as such I don't know if it's a good argument or not, just for total transparency. But what is clear is there was an ice age (at least one) and that thawed on its own without humans whizzing around in Ferrari's and flying planes all over the place.

Again, no idea if there's a good counter to that, perhaps there is, I just don't know enough about it and haven't spent much time on it.
 
arg-fallbackName="BoganUSAFFLClerk"/>
*SD* said:
I'm inclined to agree with this. It's way outside of my usual small sphere of topics I engage with, and as such I don't know if it's a good argument or not, just for total transparency. But what is clear is there was an ice age (at least one) and that thawed on its own without humans whizzing around in Ferrari's and flying planes all over the place.

Again, no idea if there's a good counter to that, perhaps there is, I just don't know enough about it and haven't spent much time on it.
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Yea there's been 5-6 ice ages depending on which source you want to look at spanning back millions of years.
 
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