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What Would all the Church People Say?
- Thread starter w_houle
- Start date
Led Zeppelin
Active Member
Typical.
D
Deleted member 619
Guest
Come on, dude. You can do better than that. Tell us what you think.
w_houle
New Member
The poem comes from who walked away from the Church. She believed that if the Bible were true, that it should not produce such horrible behavior in people. She loves me, despite being a “Jesus hater”.
I find it interesting that she came to reject faith, not because she came in contact with people against her religion of birth, but rather that her religion could not do anything that people could do. This doesn’t mean that she thinks that people of religion or faith should not be able to practice by the dictates of their conscience.
I find it interesting that she came to reject faith, not because she came in contact with people against her religion of birth, but rather that her religion could not do anything that people could do. This doesn’t mean that she thinks that people of religion or faith should not be able to practice by the dictates of their conscience.
Led Zeppelin
Active Member
Welcome to the forum. I'm not the greatest Christian in the world but I think I have a couple ideas about this which I hope will be useful.
First of all, your wife is correct that the Bible can and will be used to produce horrible behavior in people. This is not flaw. The Bible is not magical. It's purpose is mostly to remind us that we are all going to die and to give us some understanding of the reality of the dire situation which we are all in. The fact that people will use the Bible to hurt others is a reflection of this reality. We will use anything we can to hurt others. The worst thing about all of this is that the people who we love very deeply will often be the ones we try to hurt the most. This is how we are and this is why we die.
That being said, I would suggest that trying to have an understanding for peoples horrible behavior might help one to be not so affected by it. Sure some people are more horrible than others, like Hackenslash. But I am lucky in way because I can remind myself of my own extremely horrible behavior and the bad things I have done and still do and this helps me somehow.
I see it fit to try to honor a God who was beaten and tortured and crucified. If your wife once ever felt this way than surly she will be in heaven with him when she dies. Her poetry is no matter. It's not as if Jesus opted for the easy payment plan.
Cancer is a motherfucker. I was completely unprepared to sit alone and watch my Dad die from it back back when I was 20. It still haunts me till this day. I hope this post finds you well. I know cancer really sucks.
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Feel free to ignore LZ - you're not obliged to defend these contentions, but just to respond what I find unsatisfying here.
Were that the case, then the Bible actually does a terrible job of this by pretending that when we die, we can actually go on to live for literally ever. Death is barely a speed bump in this scenario.
But even assuming that it's logically coherent for God to be born as a human, to feel what a human feels, and to experience dying like a human dies... even then, the God chose to do it, knew in advance it was going to happen, actually must have intended it to happen even before there were Romans, Jews, a universe etc., plus it was all a lark anyway as God didn't actually die at all.
And it makes no sense anyway because an all-knowing, all-powerful being wouldn't need to engage in meat cosplay to perfectly experience these events.
And it was created by God. *shrug*
Were that the case, then the Bible actually does a terrible job of this by pretending that when we die, we can actually go on to live for literally ever. Death is barely a speed bump in this scenario.
But even assuming that it's logically coherent for God to be born as a human, to feel what a human feels, and to experience dying like a human dies... even then, the God chose to do it, knew in advance it was going to happen, actually must have intended it to happen even before there were Romans, Jews, a universe etc., plus it was all a lark anyway as God didn't actually die at all.
And it makes no sense anyway because an all-knowing, all-powerful being wouldn't need to engage in meat cosplay to perfectly experience these events.
And it was created by God. *shrug*
Led Zeppelin
Active Member
Yes exactly.
Led Zeppelin
Active Member
Neither one of us believes that.
Wait sorry.... I didn't mean that!
I mean to say to you to feel free to ignore me!
No, but it does follow from 'God created the universe and everything in it' - which obviously I don't believe in, but it's harder for a Christian to distance themselves from.
Led Zeppelin
Active Member
That's a good point but it does not seem to me that God has exhaustive knowledge of the future. He is not Omniscient.
D
Deleted member 619
Guest
In which case he's dead. Thing is, among the wealth of beautiful logical contradiction awaiting the apologist if they ever get past tier one of the logic of the omnis, is the logical principle that omnipotence both entails omniscience and is paradoxical to it.
If he's not o,mnipotent, what's he for?
If he's not o,mnipotent, what's he for?
Of course, you're welcome to believe whatever seems reasonable to you, but at the same time, I think it's perfectly fair when discussing Christianity to talk about what Christians commonly believe, and what Christian theologians have claimed, not what one single individual believes.
Led Zeppelin
Active Member
That may be. It is my firm belief however that the thoughts of the individual can also be held in high regard. If I thought Hackenslash would simply vomit what has already been programmed into him, I would have never asked him anything and I never would have learned something from him. It is a great thing to learn something from someone.
Absolutely don't mean to suggest that individual ideas are not worthy in any respect, just that they're not when - for example - talking about Christianity and characteristics of the Christian God; for that, it's not idiosyncratic ideas that are relevant, but those which are most ubiquitous among Christians. If I was Christian and believed God's actual image was more like a chihuahua, no one could burn me at the stake anymore for saying so, but my idea wouldn't be representative of Christian belief.
Led Zeppelin
Active Member
I don't know.
D
Deleted member 619
Guest
Great answer. Me neither.
Led Zeppelin
Active Member
If she didnt leave I think they probably would have kicked her out anyway. I have been to many different churches in my life. Everyone is always real nicey nicey at first and later it seems they always want you to do some weird, stupid thing like dance around with poisonous snakes on your head.
Conformity is central to the sense of being part of the flock. It's rarely the pastor who amplifies such ideas, but the congregation is always keeping tabs.